Experiment with Cnat

I'm in the middle of an "experiment" with my Cnat so I thought I'd start a thread.

I don't suppose this experiment will prove anything due to the limited data I'll have but it's a learning experience for me.

My honing progression is generally 1k, 4k, 8k, Cnat and chromium oxide and ferric oxide on my paddle strop before going to plain leather.

I get decent shaves but one can always get better I assume. :)

I decided to try ending the cnat part of the progression on glycerin and water. I did that with 3 blades but with one after the glycerin and water cnat I did a few laps on ferric oxide (but not chromium oxide).

So, I had two blades with no paste and one with ferric oxide. Now, I assume ferric oxide really does very little (unlike chromium oxide) but who knows? :)

When I started my shave today I started with the blade that had the ferric oxide treatment and I started on my chin for the toughest test.

That blade wasn't very smooth so I put that blade aside and used my other two blades (still on the chin). Both of them were noticeably smoother so I finished shaving with them.

These were my 3 favorite razors by the way in general so I used my best blades for this test.

After the shave I decided to change things around for the shave tomorrow.

I took the blade that had been stropped with ferric oxide and went back to the Cnat and used a little slurry, then just water, then water and glycerin. I then stropped it just on plain leather.

This will be the first blade I use tomorrow. This was the rougher blade today so I'd like to see if it is better tomorrow.

Just to get more out of this test I took the other two blades and stropped both of them on chromium oxide and ferric oxide and then plain leather.

I'll use them last tomorrow to see if they are now the rougher shave. If so I'll conclude that the paste isn't doing anything positive for me.

If it turns out that the last two blades are still smoother then I'll conclude that what I'm noticing isn't the paste but something else. Maybe I just did a better job of honing in general on those blades or the steel is just better or whatever.

More tomorrow after the shave...

Just to add a few more comments on my prior thinking...

I don't really think the ferric oxide should make enough different to have made my shave rougher today as I've read that it's made for softer metal than steel.

I also had thought that paste would only add smoothness and not take away smoothness. I know that some people think "yes" and some think "no" on that issue but I was in the "yes" it should only improve an edge camp.

I did the second shave today. The blade was was rougher yesterday was smoother today and the other two were rougher today.

So I guess for the time being I'm going to not use the pasted strop and will use glycerin on the Cnat to finish (along with plain leather).

Maybe too much stropping on the Chromox/FeOx, or a bad stroke on one of the two? I've read if you go overboard on chromox the shave can get awful uncomfortable. I can only imagine it's easier to go over the top with 2 pastes, or have a miss-stroke in the mix somewhere. Typically those are used after honing or when the blade needs a touch up and not before/after every shave, right?

I dropped pastes from my routine entirely. The only time I use Chromox now is a quick touch up, or maybe to soften a blade that needed more than the standard 4-10 swipes on a barber hone. I just buffed the stuffing out of a bunch of hones, including the Cnat, with a cotton wheel. I can't wait to get blades on them to see what the results from that will be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshal

Maybe too much stropping on the Chromox/FeOx, or a bad stroke on one of the two? I've read if you go overboard on chromox the shave can get awful uncomfortable. I can only imagine it's easier to go over the top with 2 pastes, or have a miss-stroke in the mix somewhere. Typically those are used after honing or when the blade needs a touch up and not before/after every shave, right?

I dropped pastes from my routine entirely. The only time I use Chromox now is a quick touch up, or maybe to soften a blade that needed more than the standard 4-10 swipes on a barber hone. I just buffed the stuffing out of a bunch of hones, including the Cnat, with a cotton wheel. I can't wait to get blades on them to see what the results from that will be.

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I only did a few 5-10 laps on chromium oxide and then iron oxide (supposedly the grit is getting smaller by going in that direction). The iron oxide does little I think but who knows?

No, I wasn't doing it after every shave in it's maintenance role but was doing it after the Cnat when honing. I don't think I missed any strokes either. For the second part of the test I was doing it with two different razors as well (with the same result).

I have 7 blades out that I have shave ready and I generally just rotate though which ever one strikes my fancy on a particular day.

I going to go through those today and finish them all on Cnat with glycerin and put the pasted strop away for a while.

Well, sounds like you're doing stuff more or less correct- at least to my understanding. Here's hoping the tests yield some good results! The more I use my PHIG, the more I like it.

I really enjoy reading threads like this. There are so many variables to consider you can only make assumptions BUT I experiment like this with different aspects all the time and really enjoy reading other people's "research". Thanks for sharing.

Any updates Bryan?

Did you get around to finishing more of your blades on the CNAT?

I have also noticed paste to degrade my edge for some unbeknownst reason. I don't use paste for that reason alone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Any updates Bryan?

Did you get around to finishing more of your blades on the CNAT?

I have also noticed paste to degrade my edge for some unbeknownst reason. I don't use paste for that reason alone.

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I did it to the rest, yes.

I talks so long for facial hair to grow that I'm still not sure what to think. When I shave everyday I can't tell as much about the edge as when I skip a few days.

I skipped a few days the other day and it didn't seem as sharp but I'm going to try some of the other the next time I use a straight. I also have the Tsushima Ocean Blue coming to try out.

I'll try to remember to post more when I have come to a more definite conclusion.

I was in a hurry the other day as well and switched to a DE after the first pass.

I agree that I've noticed if I shave the weak 5 o'clock shadow I get with a daily shave it is not a very good test of an edge. To that end, the only way to extrapolate data with any form of expedience for me, is to prepare a blade, wait for a bit of growth, then do a spot shave. My neck hair is thickest and mustache is most sensitive to tugging and pulling. I can extrapolate a little information from the cleft on either side of my chin (by how clean I can get that area), and my cheeks/sideburns really don't tell me much because the hair there almost seems to fall off with any sort of reasonably sharp edge. But if it DOES tug on the cheeks, the edge is a lost cause and the shave will bite all around.

At any rate, I'll shave an inch or 2 of an easy area, then the same amount of a problem area with the blade prepped one way. Then I'll wash up, change how the blade is prepped, and try again. This way I can test 2, 3, 4 things in a setting. Then if the razor is shaving well, finish up the easy stuff (cheeks, sideburns, etc.) - or switch to a good shaving razor if it isn't - and prep the blade for another set of tests in a few day's time.

I've tested two razors that way, one half of my face with each razor.

So, what does the edge look like under magnification?

Sounds like an edge problem, not a paste problem.

I bought a cnat from that guy on eBay guangxi_hone a couple weeks ago just to test with. I have read about cnats since I first started honing but never got around to trying one. I hear they are very variable so I must have got lucky on my first try. Mine was really good. It was as good as my welsh slate from AJ. Based on my experience I don't see what more someone could ask of a slate. I don't see where all the hate comes from. Maybe some people are confusing inferior quality stones like that $3 yellow stone with real cnats or something.


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No, some of them simply aren't good finishing stones. And these are the ones that harm their reputation, because they can be more hit and miss than other types of hone. There's a few really good threads on them that I'd link if I were on my computer and could easily find them. But they've been tested pretty thoroughly and it's well documented. The good ones are pretty darn good, the duds aren't. There are visual cues and hardness variables that allow one to differentiate but Woodcraft and Ebay sellers don't care to separate the wheat from the chaff so there's about a 1 in 3 chance the stone you'll get won't improve anything over an 8K and may even degrade the edge.

I was lucky with mine as well. It performs very well, and is one of my favorite stones to play with right behind my Welsh Slates.

If the $3 yellow stone you're talking about is the one ZY sells, I've got one of those and it performs OK too. I just dislike the earthy smell it has. But it gave a passable shave that was an improvement in comfort over my 8k stone.

There's definitely no confusing the 2 though. The Guangxi is the better of the 2 stones imo.

I have two Guangxi hones.They both came from the same supplier and they both were advertised as 12K stones. One stone is what most folks describe as a CNAT. It is grey. It is hard. It produces a fine white slurry that can be used to finish a razor. The other is a yellowish grey. It is fairly soft. It produces a thick, yellow mud that I find more suitable as a prefinisher than a finisher. That is the problem with Chinese naturals. You never know what you are going to get. If you get a good one, it is a real bargain.

Here is the one I had. Very worthy hone.

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