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  1. #21
    Heat it and beat it Bruno's Avatar
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    Yesterday I honed my weltmeister on this hone. About 100 laps with a light slurry.
    The bevel looked really polished and the water flowed over the razor.

    The shave was not great because the shrpness was not great.
    It was smooth though, and completely without irritation.

    I will try to hone it a bit more and see what happens.
    The edge is better than from the 4K, but worse than from the 8K
    Til shade is gone, til water is gone, Into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath.
    To spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the Last Day

  2. #22
    I hone therefore I shave moviemaniac's Avatar
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    Now, that's talking about YMMV. Three people owning a stone with the same Kanji marks but three completely different impressions.
    My hone is on the hard side - it hardly soaks up any water at all. But it doesn't mirror-polish the blade (at least not the first blade I tested it on, a "The Dome extra hollow ground"), it gave some kind of a satin-finish. After using the Chromium oxide and the Iron oxide pastes followed by the leather strop to set the edge I got one of the finest edges I've ever had. The stone also seems finer than a Thuringian to me, so it's at least a 8/9k+ grit size (I compared the grooves with my loupe).

    That's fine enough for me. In fact, that's where the honing methods of the German and the English boards differ (me coming from a German background). Stones in the range of 6k to 8k are considered finishing hones (no one uses hones in the range of 10k+ on the German boards) and we always use the pastes to set the edge (you can't really get an edge on the hones alone followed by leather, you need the pastes to get/set and smooth out the second angle that forms the edge - but, of course, YMMV).
    Last edited by moviemaniac; 05-21-2008 at 07:55 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by moviemaniac View Post
    Now, that's talking about YMMV. Three people owning a stone with the same Kanji marks but three completely different impressions.
    Please don't get confused. The stamps only indicate where the stones were mined and what type of stone they are. The stamps do not tell you about hardness or grit, that comes down to experience. You can have a primo million dollar hone hard as a diamond 250k grit and right beside it you could have a $5 lump of mud. No Japanese stones are ever the same, I can't stress this enough.

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    moviemaniac (05-21-2008)

  5. #24
    I hone therefore I shave moviemaniac's Avatar
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    Ah, now that's good to know. So, basically, the only real test to know whether the stone is worth anything is to use it? I like that. Kinda like playing the lottery. But, by the looks of my stone, it seems like I'm a winner

  6. #25
    There is no charge for Awesomeness Jimbo's Avatar
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    That's good to know Klaus - I started getting confused because I thought mine was at least 8K, or behaved that way, but Bruno's didn't, and So thought it was no good for razors etc... Then I used it more regularly and found that it works fine - it's no 60K super-stone by any stretch, but I get very shaveable edges off it.

    Interesting you mention the pastes - I've been mucking around with an Escher/Japanese pyramid and a Shapton 16K/Japanese pyramid for the last couple of weeks (when I say pyramid I just mean alternating between the two stones several times). Very good edges, better than just the Escher or Shapton edges alone IMO. Don't really know what that's about, but I'll take what I can get...

    James.
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  7. #26
    I hone therefore I shave moviemaniac's Avatar
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    Pyramides, now that's something I haven't tried before. I always use my loupe to check the results of the hone I'm using and only move to the next stone after the previous has had its impact on every part of the bevel. That way I never have to go back to a coarser stone. If I'm not satisfied at the end I start from the beginning at the 1000 grit with a different setup of finer stones (different stones for different blades). always use the pastes though. used on the hanging strop that's held not taut but leaving it hanging through a bit you create the edge due to the different (steeper) angle of the strop and the very fine abrasive material of the pastes. That's something you can't do with a stone, regardless how fine it is. But, there are many paths leading to Rome, that's just the "German" approach to hone razors.

    But now I have to try a pyramid with the japanese some day, thanks for the suggestion!

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by moviemaniac View Post
    Ah, now that's good to know. So, basically, the only real test to know whether the stone is worth anything is to use it? I like that. Kinda like playing the lottery. But, by the looks of my stone, it seems like I'm a winner
    Well basically with those ones it is like the lottery. My understanding though I could be mistaken, is that Jimbo's source doesn't know very much if anything about the stones, which suggests he never found out when buying and his source too may not have known. If I am mistaken Jimbo, I apologise in advance.

    Generally though, buying from a reliable source like So or myself, you know you are getting what you pay for and then some, so theres no gamble.

  9. #28
    There is no charge for Awesomeness Jimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL View Post
    Well basically with those ones it is like the lottery. My understanding though I could be mistaken, is that Jimbo's source doesn't know very much if anything about the stones, which suggests he never found out when buying and his source too may not have known. If I am mistaken Jimbo, I apologise in advance.

    Generally though, buying from a reliable source like So or myself, you know you are getting what you pay for and then some, so theres no gamble.
    Yes, that's pretty much on the money O_S. These stones are a lottery, which is why I've never offered to get them for people generally, even though they are relatively cheap.

    The guys who sell them have no clue at all. I was told that the old boss/owner went over to Japan 5-10 years ago, grabbed these from somewhere over there, and brought them back. He probably knew something about them at the time, but he's not there any more. Anyway, they've sat in the store room ever since, to the point where they've reduced the cost substantially from what I can see, just to get rid of them.

    I'd also recommend that people buy from someone like O_S or So - they really know their stuff from what I can tell, and you're guaranteed to get a good stone.

    James.
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  10. #29
    Heat it and beat it Bruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moviemaniac View Post
    That's fine enough for me. In fact, that's where the honing methods of the German and the English boards differ (me coming from a German background). Stones in the range of 6k to 8k are considered finishing hones (no one uses hones in the range of 10k+ on the German boards) and we always use the pastes to set the edge (you can't really get an edge on the hones alone followed by leather, you need the pastes to get/set and smooth out the second angle that forms the edge - but, of course, YMMV).
    Interesting.
    a lot of people here do the same. They use the Norton 4000/8000 for honing, and then use pasted strops to finish.

    I don't use pastes at all. After the 8000 I finish on the coticule (until recently) and then on my nakayama which is an incredible stone (30000 or 40000 grit).
    It is perfectly possible to get perfect edges off stones allone, provided you have good stones, which are indeed very expensive compared to pastes which are dirt cheap.

    I like stones very much. I played with the idea of starting to use pastes, but now that I have my large coticule and high end nakayama, I don't think I'll ever bother with pastes.
    Til shade is gone, til water is gone, Into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath.
    To spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the Last Day

  11. #30
    I hone therefore I shave moviemaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL View Post
    Generally though, buying from a reliable source like So or myself, you know you are getting what you pay for and then some, so theres no gamble.
    One day I'm gonna get myself a hone from you or So, just for comparison and for owning one. Right now my budget doesn't allow the purchase - I've spent far too much money on hones and razors the last few months

    @Bruno: Well, with a hone that fine it's most certainly possible to get by without using pastes. One day I'm gonna find out for myself

    By the way: I just finished honing a Wapi on my Japanese and it also took an incredible edge. Just WOW!

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