Extremely Stupid sharp...

a) I've been thinking that after my 16k shapton arrives there are a few more steps that might be added.

b) I noticed woodcraft has a grade A granite surface plate for 30$.
I love woodcraft.

c) I know my local lee valley has sheets of 3M .5 Micron chromium paper.

d) And I noticed that japanesewoodworker has 3M .3 micron silicon oxide paper.

When I combine these thoughts I find myself wondering whether it might be possible to hone a razor up to the point of completely unusable

Woo hoo!!!! :y


The 3M papers have a wonderfully even distribution of material so one can hone rather than strop.

e) I'm also wondering whether a honing jig might provide that impossibly light even touch that I probably won't learn for another 1000 razors.


I'm looking for feedback, additions or embellishments. My razors are already more than sharp enough off the chinese 12k and .5 chromium paper, then .25 diamond strop, newsprint and leather but I'm curious how sharp is sharp.

Thanks,
Bob
:w

I thought you wanted to reduce the dermis removal?

Lol, this is purely in the pursuit of science rather than better shaving.

-Bob

I use Bueller diamond lapping film taped on a sheet of glass to hone my razors. It works great.

You can get similar stuff here:
http://rshughes.com/products/051111_61574.html?

I have 9um, 6um, 3um, 1um, 0.5um, & 0.1um grades. (I don't bother with the 0.1um actually)

I use a honing motion (i.e.- edge first), and have no problems

The diamond is bonded/fused into the polymer film, so it lasts a long time. I am not familiar with the cromium paper, but I'm sure it will do the trick very nicely as well, it just may not last as long. But it is probably cheaper?

Sometimes I play with putting a single sheet of paper underneath the lapping film, as this seems to give it some cushion and smoothness. If I put 5 sheets of paper under there, it is too much and it doesn't polish the bevel evenly.

Get some and try it out!

This is an admirable goal, but don't forget that you will be sacrificing edge longevity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by floppyshoes

This is an admirable goal, but don't forget that you will be sacrificing edge longevity.

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I'm very curious about edge longevity - has anyone here actually worn a razor down from razor birth to razor death? Seems like this would take awhile

I think he is referring to the time between honing and rehoning... the sharper you go the sooner you will have to go back to the hone.
and yes if you go too sharp your edge can collapse while shaving, and you will end up with a dull razor very fast.

The holy grail is a razor that is super sharp, but feels smooth, and doesn't break down in a week... I have such a razor, but I'm not sharing. :p

In this day and age of "Scientific Superiority", I'm kind of surprised that there's not a company out there that can bring a blade to absolute "Perfect Sharpness", without the need for honing or stroping.....The blade would be made from High-Speed Tool Steel, Carbide, or some other alloy that would be super-hard......and retain it's edge indefinitely.....
and, speaking of the edge.......It would be inspected under an electron microscope to make absolutely SURE that it was undeniably PERFECT !

(or am I just wishing for too much) ?.......:rolleyes:

Marko......

Yeah you will definately be sacrificing honing longevity. I shave with .25 micron edges but I only sell .5 unless .25 is requested because i find that people mess them up otherwise. This is a recent change. They also have .1 micron diamond paste that you can use but when you get to a point you no longer have a comfortable shave either.

Rather than unusable, you're more likely to overhone and end up with a wired edge. I like your thinking, but I'd go sparingly on the different polishing levels since you are thinking of using so many.

X

I also have been tossing around the idea of buying that granite surface plate for $30 from Woodcraft. It's been on my mind for months. I just like the idea of having something that wouldn't take up much table space but would be that inexpensive but be that flat.

I have all the 3M honing films you talk about including the .5 chrome and the .3. I've found that unless I use a honing oil on the chromed paper especially, it's pretty much unusable. The blade chatters and stutters across the surface worse than anything else I've experienced. Oil takes care of that, but even with oil "only the weight of the blade IME is pretty much out of the question. Get ready to help that razor along with exerting some backward and possibly downward spine pressure (which I do anyway to the horror of some I'm sure).

The only thing I didn't like about using the oil is that I have waterstones not oil stones. I was careless in not removing every bit of residual oil from my honing table and a bit soaked into one of my Belgian Blues. I'll have to just lap past it down the road in my life since I'm not going to take detergent or oven cleaner to my Belgian Blue.

The reason why I bought the film? Well, I had a crazy idea that the ultimate hone for a warped razor would be to afix the honing film to a 1" wood dowel or PVC pipe and literally hone (a la chef steel style) on a LINE of abrasive absolutely insuring that every bit of the bevel of any warped razor would make contact with what would really be the world's narrowest hone! So far, it hasn't proven good results. Randy Tuttle's theory to this is that there is so much force applied to the edge that it makes for difficult if not practically impossible to hone that way with a touch light enough to provide good results.

Chris L

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chrisl

The only thing I didn't like about using the oil is that I have waterstones not oil stones. I was careless in not removing every bit of residual oil from my honing table and a bit soaked into one of my Belgian Blues. I'll have to just lap past it down the road in my life since I'm not going to take detergent or oven cleaner to my Belgian Blue.

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Detergent will not damage your coticule or blue in any way.
I know people who use water with detergent to wet their belgians.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chrisl

I have all the 3M honing films you talk about including the .5 chrome and the .3. I've found that unless I use a honing oil on the chromed paper especially, it's pretty much unusable. The blade chatters and stutters across the surface worse than anything else I've experienced. Oil takes care of that, but even with oil "only the weight of the blade IME is pretty much out of the question. Get ready to help that razor along with exerting some backward and possibly downward spine pressure (which I do anyway to the horror of some I'm sure).

Chris L

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The diamond lapping films that I use exhibit none of these characteristics. I started using them wet (water), but I have definitely gotten better results dry. My razors glide along quite effortlessly on all of the grit levels.

I think the diamond lapping films have the abrasive embedded into the film, whereas the abrasive papers have the abrasive adhered on top of the paper. This may have a dramatic effect on how well the blade is able to move across the surface.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

The diamond lapping films that I use exhibit none of these characteristics. I started using them wet (water), but I have definitely gotten better results dry. My razors glide along quite effortlessly on all of the grit levels.

I think the diamond lapping films have the abrasive embedded into the film, whereas the abrasive papers have the abrasive adhered on top of the paper. This may have a dramatic effect on how well the blade is able to move across the surface.

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3M abrasive film have the abrasive embedded into the film (resin) as well, making for a longer lived product than traditional sandpapers. However, the .5 micron Chromium Oxide 3M film has a surface so smooth it's similar in nature to the emulsion side of old photographic film. On chromium oxide "pasted" balsa or leather, a razor glides very smoothly across those surfaces. I've found this not to be the case with the 3M chromium film. :shrug:

I found the coarser grits of 3M film to be just fine for honing and seemed to cut aggressively. Water or oil is advocated for use in conjunction with the films for improving the life of the film but to me has the disadvantage of storage issues.

All of this is fun to experiment with for certain.

Chris L