Has anyone tried using shim steel over the spine to hone a wedge?
This method would avoid taking hours to hone and eroding the face of the blade.
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Has anyone tried using shim steel over the spine to hone a wedge?
This method would avoid taking hours to hone and eroding the face of the blade.
I suspect a piece of electrical tape wrapped around the spine would do the same thing.
Yes but Shim steel is a measured width and will survive much more abuse on the hone than electrical tape. Thus creating a constant bevel unlike the electrical tape which will wear down quickly.
How would you afix the shim steel to the razor's spine? I must say I like the idea. The times I have taped spines with electrical tape I've found on higher grit stones it's not a problem. On lower grit stones, the stones chew up the tape pretty rapidly resulting in my having to change tape which is a distraction and also probably throws off the progress to some degree.
Chris L
Somewhere there is a thread where a bunch of guys got out their micrometers and measured 3M Electrical tape, and it was consistently found to be .007 inches (with negligible variance).
So, it really shouldn't be an issue of consistent thickness, if anything you'd be doing for wear resistance. But I'd assume the shim steel is more expensive, and a bit more cumbersome to apply.
fwiw, I've never had a problem with tape wearing through (and I've restored some pretty rough blades). Maybe you'd have to replace it after 100 laps on a 325 diamond plate but it would be a rare instance for most of us to have to do that kind of aggressive honing.
But hey, give it a shot and let us know how it works for you, maybe a new trend will be born.
My point of having a consistant thickness is that tape is compressible, depending on the amount of pressure applied to it will compress. Shim steel will not.
I assume that one could wrap a piece of shim around the sides and over onto the face of the razor , then tape the shim steel to the spine making sure that none overlaps onto the blade face.
I like your idea of Shim Steel. I have some very old wedges that need some help and I don't like tape. I try to keep my hones very clean and the tape residue slows my honing. Now I need to find a reasonable source.
There was a post somewhere about a Livi blade thats spine is a little thin so he (Maestro) made a kind of slide on shim to raise the angle to the appropriate level for honing, it also served the dual purpose of protecting the spine edge (I think it was a damascus blade)
Sounds like this idea is kinda the same.
Barney
Really? My experience is that it wears down fast on really coarse hones. I think after 100 laps on the DMT C you'll be well through the tape and getting some decent hone wear on your razor...Quote:
Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge
I have been thinking of shim stock too. The only problem is fixing it to the blade so you can cut.
I have problems with gummy residue on my D8C as well when using tape also, what a pain in the :cen!
How about some double sided tape on the inside of the folded shim stock?:hmmm:
If memory serves, they sell hardened shim stock too. That would last significantly longer than regular stuff. I will have to rummage through a few junk boxes and see what I have laying around....
hah! good one the double sided tape inside the shim would be the ticket.
I don't know why there would be a difference, honing pressure? I just honed out a 1/16th chip from a razor that was taped on the 325, and it was fine all the way up the grits.Quote:
Originally Posted by bjrn
As far as compression goes, if your compressing the tape to any significant degree, you are also flexing the edge enough to give possibly very poor results. ...unless its a wedge, in which case you can probably stand on it and not get a significant deflection.:D
Many people here use tape for all kinds of razors and it has worked well for nearly all of them. But if you can pioneer an easy way to get cheaply acquired shim steel to stick to the blade I'm sure others will adopt your method, probably even me.
(how about giving aluminum foil a try, it's harder than tape, incompressible, and cheap ....gets up and walks to kitchen...)
It has to do with the quality of tape! All electrical tapes are not created equal!Quote:
Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge
Mine is not 3M tape, it's some bulk brand, so maybe that is the difference (fwiw, it measures 6 mil thickness, rather than 3M's 7 mil).
I don't normally tape my blades when I hone, but when I do it is this stuff here that I use and it never wears on me...at least not yet!http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=350-056Quote:
Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge
Perhaps I was using the softest brand out there, I think I might have some from another pack as well that I could try and compare with.
Just an important clarification here, the title of the thread should be "using a shim to set an edge" not "using a shim to set a bevel". If you decide to set the bevel with a shim, then you must also use the same shim to polish the bevel on the high grits and touch up the razor every time after. If you use the shim to set the bevel then take it off to try to polish the edge then the high grits will not reach the cutting edge and you will get a reverse double bevel and a lousy shave (because the angle that you will be polishing at will be shallower than the actual edge leaving the low grit scratch pattern at the cutting edge). The same principle applies with electrical tape. Good electrical tape works fine and will not wear very quickly, so you do not need to make a metal device. If you feel that the wear will cause a problem then replace the tape when you move on from the low grits to the high grits. Electrical tape will not flex under pressure enough to cause an issue, if you think otherwise then you need to lighten up the pressure and just use the weight of the razor and/or use a better quality tape.
David
My idea was to set the bevel and continue to use the the shim to do all work on the blade as any hone or strop work on a true wedge will take a significant amount of time without something to lift the face of the blade off the hone. Using the same piece of hardened shim stock would allow this. It is more durable than a piece of electrical in addition to being reusable unlike tape. Thus I think the title of this thread is exactly what I wanted it to be. :tu
It varies. In my experience, the tape can last a long time on the DMT C, even hundreds of laps. The trick is not using pressure, because that will indeed melt the tape fast, and it also clogs up the DMT.Quote:
Originally Posted by bjrn
David,Quote:
Originally Posted by heavydutysg135
Good point! I was thinking the exact same thing -
Steve
I've never used a DMT but on 1000 grit paper I've only had one instance where I wore through the tape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
When I was removing a huge chip, I took a measurable (with a ruler) amount of metal off the whole length of the blade on the 1000 grit paper and went through only two pieces of tape in the process. If you have that many strokes to do I wouldn't worry about wearing through the tape. You are using it at that point to simply protect the razor while you remove a lot of stock. I wouldn't even consider this setting the bevel, its chip removal plain and simple. Add new tape once the edge is free of imperfections, then you'll be setting the bevel, and you probably won't wear through that piece until the razor is shave ready.
FWIW 3m temflex 1700 tape is probably the better tape for honing rather than the 3m 33+ tape. Reason being that the 1700 is a tougher tape that is less prone to stretching (a change in thickness) and is more durable and is also way cheaper to buy. The 33+ acts more like a rubber than vinyl. if you take a four inch piece of celephane tape and stick it to the center of a piece of paper the paper will stay flat. But if you pull a piece of electrical tape off a roll and put it on the center of a piece of paper it will begin to warp because the tape is going back to its origional shape and thickness before you tugged on it.
my .02c
john
Some of the old "Frame back" razors were nothing more than a very thin , beveled, piece of steel ( for the blade) that have a piece of brass type metal pressed on/over the spine. One that I have I can actually slide the brass "spine" off the blade.
I call them a "Poor mans frameback".
Just my two cents,:)