Newbie has a question ???

This is my first post ... So HI ALL :D

I've been lurking around a few sites on and off for past year. I've always had an attraction to the straight razor. I've been getting a shave with a disposable staight at the barber along with my haircut for years as a little luxury. Though by all accounts a proper straight cannot be compared with a disposabe straight at all for comfort or quality of shave. I was happy with the barber shave though, anything better is a bonus.

But straights aren't something you find in a shop too often and had never managed to stumble across one. Probably a good thing as I would certainly have ruined it very quickly. In the past year or so I've picked up so much info about the sharpening and care of them that I certainly won't be doing what a friends brother did to one just recently. He bought what he though was an expensive razor at $60, then in awe of its sharpness started slicing through paper and thin cardboard. When it came to shaving with it, he said it was crap and a waste of money ... "hurt like hell" :eek:


But anyway, enough with all that ... to my question.

What is the ideal hone setup given the following parameters.

1. Money not an issue.
2. Consistency is important
3. Result is key.


Now to elaberate.

By "Money not an issue" I mean $500 for hones, a strop, lapping plate etc isn't a stretch. My wife has a Kanetsune Damascus kitchen knife set that I could touch up with the hones as well, kinda justifies the expense I guess, or that's what I could tell her ;)

Consistency is important. When I started researching I got the impression that the Belgian Coticule was the bees knees. I was considering ringing to check stock on a yellow/blue combo stone. Then I came across a review on a certain other site showing a dozen of these and stating all the differences between them. I understand they're a natural product and hence all a little different but if the same result can be achieved with a synthetic stone only more consistenly I'd probable go that route. Then again the differences mentioned may be like rating something 97/100 as opposed to 99/100 :shrug:

Now the result. This is a tricky one as I don't want to offend anyone. As with any enthusiast site people get so drawn into it that they they'll start saying things like "you have to do such and such as any other way is just no good" This is an objective statement and is sometimes dependent on one's enthusiasm for the hobby rather than actual result. For instance could the average person tell a razor that had been professionally honed up to 8k then stropped versus one that had been honed to 16k and stropped ??

I don't want the law of diminishing returns to come into play and end up buying extra hones that I don't really need just to achieve a result that I won't really notice. I don't want to polish that last little 8k scratch off the blade just for something to do if you know what I mean.

So far I'm thinking along the lines of Shapton GlassStones, say 2k, 4k & 8k or perhaps 4k 8k & 16k?. Maybe I just two stones or perhaps four. Read somewhere that Naniwa stones leave a more polished surface as opposed the the matt surface left by the Shaptons. From someone who has tried these, is this true, false or makes no noticable difference?


Now I don't own a straight yet, but I WILL buy one, probably something cheap and nasty that I'll practice my honing with. Millions of men have shaved with a straight and I see no reason why I can't. I've done a fair bit of research and I'm yet to read a single post where the auther claims to get a better shave from a Mach 3 or an electric. The real attraction for me is to learn to sharpen a piece of metal to the point where I can shave with it. That along with the fact that I love simple objects made to ridiculously high standards for what they do for no other reason than "because I can". So I could see myself buying a Zowada, Ellis or Williams. But untill I'm happy that I can hone to a high standard I'll stay with the afformentioned cheap and nasty.

Sorry for the long post, but I did do my research and this is the only subject that is a sticking point at the moment. Don't want to do things backwards and buy a really expensive razor, then a brush and soap and strop then come here asking what a hone is.

Welcome, I don't know the answer to your question, but wanted to say hello. I have found that practically any high grit hone and a strop does just fine. The best, no idea.

Have fun though.

I have alot of stones because I am an employee of Woodcraft and I get a discount. I have all the Shapton Glass Stones and the Glass Diamond Lapping Plate. I also have a beautiful Belgian blue/coticule set. I also have a few DMT hones and several Norton waterstones. They are all great but the Shapton system is my favorite. That's why I designed and fabricated a nifty box to store and protect all my favorite honing stuff.

I have an Illinois 361 I bought at The Knife Center http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/st....html?s=IRS361

I am awaiting the arrival of a Hand American horse butt strop. I bought it because I want to compare the horsehide to the cowhide. I've read that horsehide makes a better strop but I've been using an Illinois cowhide and linen for thirty years with no complaints. I also want to aquire one of Tony Miller's Artisan horsehide strops because they are highly regarded and look terrific.

Having said all that, I have no idea if you can get this stuff in Australia.

With a budget of $500.00 you cannot go wrong with one of the following:

1- DMT plates set of 3 - 8inch - course, fine, and extra fine with holder $99.50

2 - DMT plate - D8EE - also 8 inch - Extra, extra fine 3 microns - $62.50

3 -Tony Miller stop - 3 inch appx. $70.00

4 - You could substitute Shapton glass stones set of (4) $179.00

All of which you can order from Craftsman Studio. You can then purchase a really nice razor of your choice and still probably come under budget.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UFURST

With a budget of $500.00 you cannot go wrong with one of the following:

1- DMT plates set of 3 - 8inch - course, fine, and extra fine with holder $99.50

2 - DMT plate - D8EE - also 8 inch - Extra, extra fine 3 microns - $62.50

3 -Tony Miller stop - 3 inch appx. $70.00

4 - You could substitute Shapton glass stones set of (4) $179.00

All of which you can order from Craftsman Studio. You can then purchase a really nice razor of your choice and still probably come under budget.

---

I agree with the above post. The DMT's will last forever and never need to be lapped flat even if you sharpen your knives on them, and they can be used to lap other stones.

For a razor that needs a complete rebirth, I start on the D8C, stop as soon as the edge becomes "sticky" then move to the D8EF to finish the bevel setting, which is the base for a quality shaving edge. The D8EE will polish the 1200 grit scratches off in a handful of passes and leave a consistently razor sharp edge.

BUT, you do need a finishing stone, the D8EE is 8000 grit, but is a little "aggressive" for shaving.

The Coticule is a very traditional finishing stone, one of the top stones for it's versatility and fine polishing qualities.

A set up of the DMT D8C, D8F, D8EF, D8EE and a Coticule would be an extremely consistent, high quality progression that would sharpen almost anything you can throw at it to a world class level and will probably last your entire lifetime.

But there are many good methods, this is just my favorite.

Welcome aboard !!!!

Seems that there are almost 2 distinct groups of people when it comes to hones...
The Naturalists, who swear by the Belgium's, Tam's, Esher's etc: etc: etc:
The Techies, who swear by the Norton's DMT's, Shapton's etc: etc: etc:

They are some who actually use stones from both sides and have a mixed set up...

I am not so sure anybody can say one is better than another, nor does it really matter, if it works for you is what matters...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Welcome aboard !!!!

Seems that there are almost 2 distinct groups of people when it comes to hones...
The Naturalists, who swear by the Belgium's, Tam's, Esher's etc: etc: etc:
The Techies, who swear by the Norton's DMT's, Shapton's etc: etc: etc:

They are some who actually use stones from both sides and have a mixed set up...

I am not so sure anybody can say one is better than another, nor does it really matter, if it works for you is what matters...

---

I'm one of the mix it up types, I like the DMTs for doing the "rough cutting" and many different natural stones for final polishing. After the D8EE I've been doing a pyramid on a belgian blue/coticule combo then moving to a thuringian then finishing on one of Old_School's Nakayamas. Absolutely the best edges I've ever had.

I need to pick up a shapton, or two, to try out sometime, but for the time being my HAD is sated.

Hello and welcome let me just rate the stones I have. This thread already has a lot of good advice in it.

Norton 220/1000, great stone and it puts an edge on some real Ebay junk

Norton 4000/8000, not so great the 8000 side is nice but due to embedded grains I can not use the 4000 side

Spyderco Medium, great stone takes place of my 4000

Spyderco E Fine, great stone polish to very sharp edge I use it after my 8000 Norton.

Next it is on Chrom lased balsa and then I shave.

Regreats, and new wish list DMT coarse for lapping and EEF for just to try. Also the new Spyderco EF in 3" x 8" size

PS, strop with news paper the other day and shaved, seems about the same as chrom&balsa

Good luck

Rupes,

I'm using 2 hones.

1. A DMT-E (1200 grit), for what I call "edge restoration", like setting a good bevel on Ebay-razors, removing little chips, or corrosion pitting. Even on new razors, if the factory bevel is not quite what it should be.

2. A Coticule. Which is all I need to get rid of the scratches from the DMT and get an absolutely superb shaving edge.

Actually, I own 4 coticules (and have access to 2 more). There's a vintage one, and the three others all come from different mining layers. I know that, because I have bought them for that specific reason. They also look and feel different. They even feel quite different while honing. Some of them work faster than others. But they all produce about the same great shaving edges. My face can't really tell the difference. I have been experimenting with Chromium Oxide on a strop too, and although some of the razors that were treated that way perhaps felt a bit different to the skin, I did not notice any performance gain.

I think there are many setups that work really well. And I think all of the common "brands" often discussed here on SRP, are all good and fair products. What you personal preference will turn out to be, may well have more to do with your personality than with the performance of the hones in question. One thing I like about Coticules, though, is that it seems impossible to "overhone" on them.

Best regards,
Bart.

The variation in your honing technique will far outweigh any difference in the surface of a belgian coticule. The razor will make a difference too. I and many others on this site regularly hone with belgian stones and a natural strop and get great shaves. If you keep your razor sharp, all you'll need is a coticule and a natural leather strop. Your wife's damascus kitchen knife will benefit from a belgian blue stone. You don't need a coticule for a kitchen knife as it's overkill. The blue also comes in handy if you've let the razor get too dull for a quick refresh with a coticule. Progressive honing. Progress from coarser to finer stones. You won't overhone on a coticule and it's a beautiful natural stone. If you have other questions, feel free to call me. Mornings are best after 8am eastern and Monday is my worst day but the others are fine.

If you're looking for perfection, good luck! There is no perfect system.

I can guarantee that whatever you settle on after years of trying different thing won't be the same as what I like. Our edges may come out about the same though.

It all comes down to personal preference, how you use the hones, where you like to do your honing, how fine you want your edges for a comfortable shave.