The Rolling X

I don't know if anyone will get much out of this, but I took a few shots the other day while I was honing because there had been some discussion about "the rolling X" pattern for honing. The razor is one with a very pronounced smile, and the motion has been exaggerated to show the essence of what's happening. Each razor will require a different degree of "roll" in the honing stroke, so just take this as a basic instruction, you'll need to use your own judgment when implementing it.

The first pic shows the starting position; heel on the stone, toe raised up to make contact at the heel.

The second is half way through the stroke, middle of the blade touching, toe still slightly off the stone.

The final shot is the end of the stroke, the toe is the only part of the blade touching the stone.

Hope this helps someone.

(and yes, that razor is an excellent shaver, not pretty, but a great razor for sure)

Some different shots. (again razor with a ridiculous smile to show the motion)

If you look close, you can see in the middle pic that the razor doesn't touch the stone at the toe or heel, which is why the straight honing method does not work for it.

This set shows how to do it without any X pattern necessary.

Thanks Russel. I'm trying to grasp this and I think I'm getting closer (even with your pics, it hasn't completely clicked. I'm the first to admit I'm daft sometimes).

Question: In your first pic of the first post, even though the toe is raised completely off the plate, BOTH the heel edge AND the spine are making complete contact with the plate (looks like DMT to me), correct?

Also, in the first post, are you just pulling the razor laterally off that plate for what would be your honing stroke?? You're not passing the razor north/south on the hone at all? You just flip the razor in the traditional manner and pull laterally with edge away from you for the other side's stroke?

Chris L

Sorry, I was more concerned with holding the camera with my left hand, pushing the button on the right side of the camera, while holding the darn thing steady and also keeping the razor in the right position.

Yes, the back and the edge touch the stone at the same time. You would use a traditional honing stroke using the full length of the stone, I just forgot to move very much while taking pics.

The motion is the same for both sequences, only the first one does a "rolling X" pattern, while the second set focuses on the "rolling hone" which goes straight down the length of the stone.

Nice shots! :tu

X

Great pictures :tu I am going to post my 1.5 hour honing video from the clinic that I gave at the Southern California Straight Razor Get Together in the near future, and this technique is covered.

Look forward to it David.

Good work RB.

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Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

Sorry, I was more concerned with holding the camera with my left hand, pushing the button on the right side of the camera, while holding the darn thing steady and also keeping the razor in the right position.

Yes, the back and the edge touch the stone at the same time. You would use a traditional honing stroke using the full length of the stone, I just forgot to move very much while taking pics.

The motion is the same for both sequences, only the first one does a "rolling X" pattern, while the second set focuses on the "rolling hone" which goes straight down the length of the stone.

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I've been doing this kind of stroke but with the heel leading so the blade is at about 30-45 degrees on the hone.

I lead with the heel also barneycg, good to know I'm not the only one. ;)

It stemmed from only having the 2" wide norton when I started. Now I've got a 3" wide DMT D8EE I suppose it isn't needed but my hand has got used to doing it that way.

Barney

I picked this Case Bros up on the bay and it came to me in a dull condition but fortunately with no defects in the edge. I honed it up with the rolling method and it shaved very well. The shape of the blade caused a bit of trepidation on my part when I began the shave but it really was easy once I got going.

Thank you Russel, I've been trying to figure this one out for a while.

Jordan

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Originally Posted by poona

Look forward to it David.

Good work RB.

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Huge +1 on looking forward to your honing vid, David. We appreciate your contribution.

Chris L

Agreed, I'd love to see the honing seminar on film.

The great thing about the "rolling" motion is it can be done on skinny hones and wide hones alike, and at any angle you find necessary (some people find the 45 degree angle produces a smoother edge). And, in fact, the x pattern is essentially the same as holding the razor at an angle and moving it in straight line, makes the same scratch pattern anyway.

So I am glad to see at least a few people got something out of it.

Happy honing!

Russel

:tuMuch needed info, well explained. Thanks for taking the time, Russel.

Leon

If anyone cares, the hone in the pictures is the D8EE that I've come to be so fond of. But in reality I only use it for working out microchips and prepping rough blades. For maintaining razors I just use a coticule if there are no microchips.

And I've been using a small coticule slurry stone to make a slurry on it (see first set of pics), seems to make it a bit smoother than without.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

If anyone cares, the hone in the pictures is the D8EE that I've come to be so fond of. But in reality I only use it for working out microchips and prepping rough blades. For maintaining razors I just use a coticule if there are no microchips.

And I've been using a small coticule slurry stone to make a slurry on it (see first set of pics), seems to make it a bit smoother than without.

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You use a coticule slurry stone on the D8EE to make it smoother? I'l have to try that.

It's only something I've done a few times, and it could just be that the slurry stone added a little more "break in" wear to the diamond surface. I'll have to do some more playing around before I can say that it does anything positive with any certainty.

I see a lot of hones in the background there, I'm praying that things don't go that far for me.

Very useful pics though, i have a W&B exactly like the one you showed, dark and old and looks like a butcher's chopper but seems ot be good steel. i only bought it a week ago in a flea market and have yet to try anything with it.

I thought that i would need to grind out the hollow a littel since mine doesn't have much ofone left from a lot of use, but can Ijust give it a good equal bevel and use it with a thicker blade/less hollow?

Would this act more like a wedge too and keep the blade sharper for longer?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gingahippy

I see a lot of hones in the background there, I'm praying that things don't go that far for me.

I thought that i would need to grind out the hollow a littel since mine doesn't have much ofone left from a lot of use, but can Ijust give it a good equal bevel and use it with a thicker blade/less hollow?

Would this act more like a wedge too and keep the blade sharper for longer?

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HAD isn't a real disorder until you have more stones than razors... I passed that point long ago...:(

About your WB, it shouldn't need to be reground, as long as you can form a smooth bevel at the edge, it's usable.

Without seeing the condition of the blade, I can't be too specific but most of these old English blades are best started on something like a 1k hone or sandpaper to set a good bevel because there's so much metal to be removed (anything higher will just take longer to do the same job).

You'll have to spend more time at each grit level for the same reason, more metal in contact with the hone, but the end result is worth it.

I can't really say that a wedge holds it's edge noticeably longer, but I can say that they are my favorite blades for comfort when they're honed properly, so you've got that to look forward to. :tu

I purchased a pair of Double Arrows and both smiled at me.
After coloring the bevel with marker, I put her on a Shapton 4000 Glasstone. After two rolling x passes the bevel was clean except the last 1/8"on the toe. Raise the scales a tad more on the end of the third pass. Done...clean bevel.
My DA's seem to have a softer steel than any other of my razors.
Between the soft steel and the speed of the Shapton, I had instant feedback on my technique.
Previous to the DA's I had tried to hone a 7/8" Wade & Butcher meat chopper with little success.
Now that same W&B is a Great shaver and the DA's aren't bad ether.