Scratches on wedges from honing?

It's been my experience that sometimes when honing I'll get tiny scratches coming out from the edge on different spots along the edge. It's just a pain if the finish is mirror. Now it has ONLY happened on wedge or heavy grind blades with a wide bevel that are smiling lol. I know that's pretty specific, but has anyone else experienced this or is there a way to solve it? It has even happened with a taped spine BTW. I do not think that there is an occlusion on the stones or anything. I think it has more to do with using a rolling X-pattern or something. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Regardless, it is only aesthetic since the razors still shave great. I can't seem to pin point when in the stroke or honing process it happens though. Any ideas?

I have seen it a few times and it tends to follow my diamond stones. Shows up on knives too. My guess was that it was a piece of slurry or something.

Perhaps it is some of the slurry that builds up while honing? I have noticed it rarely all rinses off.

Might be worth mentioning it usually happens mostly while setting a bevel too. Slurry is one thing I've thought about. If that were it is there any antidote or do people just leave scratches on their freshly honed razors?

Yes Yes and Yes ....Exactly Alex and inevitably it only happens on a near perfect mirror finish :rant:
I think yer dead on with the piece of errant slurry or the rocking motion, I have been trying to rinse the stones more often, and hope for the best. I was really hoping that it was a Norton problem and when I switch over next week to Shaptons that it will disappear :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yes Yes and Yes ....Exactly Alex and inevitably it only happens on a near perfect mirror finish :rant:
I think yer dead on with the piece of errant slurry or the rocking motion, I have been trying to rinse the stones more often, and hope for the best. I was really hoping that it was a Norton problem and when I switch over next week to Shaptons that it will disappear :D

---

switch? I thought the shaptons were merely an addition... wow this is all so sudden

RIP Norton

My wedge also has these scratches as well.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...veliscious.jpg

:thinking:If it is in the slurry it may not be the hone but your "nagura". wedges because the meat lay nearer the stone, setting bevels because a coarser stone is more aggressive on the nagura ??

:shrug: maybe not

I have noticed it also. One thing was taking the razors tip to close to the edge at the end of the stroke. The other is slurry and also pressure. The grind also factors in, thick grinds are more prone to this. Make sure to soften the edge of the hone.

Just my observations,:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by randydance062449

I have noticed it also. One thing was taking the razors tip to close to the edge at the end of the stroke.

---

That is exactly what I figured causes it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SteveS

That is exactly what I figured causes it.

---

+1 on the edge theory

-1 on that theory.

I used diamond lapping film on my wedge. Completely uniform surface, and still the scratches....

Is it just that the bevels are wide enough on a wedge that you can see the scratches, as opposed to the very thin bevels of a regular razor?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphim

-1 on that theory.

I used diamond lapping film on my wedge. Completely uniform surface, and still the scratches....

Is it just that the bevels are wide enough on a wedge that you can see the scratches, as opposed to the very thin bevels of a regular razor?

---

Hard to say from the picture- but to me they appear to be left overs from an early grit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphim

-1 on that theory.

I used diamond lapping film on my wedge. Completely uniform surface, and still the scratches....

Is it just that the bevels are wide enough on a wedge that you can see the scratches, as opposed to the very thin bevels of a regular razor?

---

You see, I think those scratches that you have in your pic aren't what I am talking about. Mine aren't on the bevel but past the bevel on the blade. I agree with Kev as to what your scratches may be though. I agree with the slurry and edge ideas though for what I am talking about. For your razor Seraphim, the bevel no matter how wide should be uniform scratches, so that must either be errant grit from a coarser stone or scratches that were never honed away. In any case, if it shaves well, it doesn't really matter, does it? lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philadelph

You see, I think those scratches that you have in your pic aren't what I am talking about. Mine aren't on the bevel but past the bevel on the blade. I agree with Kev as to what your scratches may be though. I agree with the slurry and edge ideas though for what I am talking about. For your razor Seraphim, the bevel no matter how wide should be uniform scratches, so that must either be errant grit from a coarser stone or scratches that were never honed away. In any case, if it shaves well, it doesn't really matter, does it? lol

---

OK then. I agree with you in regards to my razor.

As far as scratches beyond the bevel: I didn't realize that is what you were talking about in the first place:thinking:, so I will recuse myself from any further comments on that subject, because I know nothing about it.:o

Has anyone devised a way to reduce or eliminate these inner-bevel scratches?

If you are referring to the streak into the belly that scratch the mirror finish (or the etch), I find it happens on lower grits (an arrant clump of grits). A bit of tape over the belly just behind the bevel (covering the etch) on both sides before setting the bevel prevents this.

This is exactly the think I have been thinking about lately :D I have 2 theories.

1. The scratches are left over from coarser girts that may have cut a little deeper then desired, and are only revealed when you get past about 2k, when mirror finishing begins. The scratches become more pronounced the finer you get. The best way to get rid of them is to go back down to 2k or so (assuming the bevel is set, I wouldn't go back to 1k, its too coarse for this, and will leave new scratches in its place). On your way back up, you must make sure that all previous scratches are even at each level. It's time consuming.

As part of the same theory, except for diamond plates, the coarser grit stones round over the edge more than finer grits because they wear faster. If you set the bevel with a #320 stone, you can expect to have a somewhat rounded edge, especially on repaired edges. At 1k, the stone is stronger, but time needs to be spent making sure that you "flatten" out the bevel to get those scratches (but this too can round the edge if you are using a softer stone. Lapping is the key, here. How much is the $64 Million question, and it depends on you, but more is better in this case IME.)

2. The scratches are really caused from the technique - let me explain before I get death threats :jedi:- I see an X pattern of scratches on the blade, which means you are either alternating the position on the blade somewhere in your process, or it is from an "X" or a half-moon pattern. They haven't been "canceled out" by higher grit stones.

If you use this method I used on my blog (again, please no death threats, just a suggestion to even out the scratches) it creates scratches in a uniform horizontal direction, and is "borrowed" from Japanese Katana polishing, BTW. Sharpening with the blade straight across the stone can also be used, and it creates uniform verticle scratches.

If you use Shaptons, you will see scratches all the way up to 30k if you look in the right light. I think pyramid sharpening will also have more pronounced scratches than progressive sharpening, because you are switching back and forth between 2 grits, whereas progressive sharpening goes through each stone without going back, so you'll see less evidence of the provious stones (in theory, at least).

Aesthetics are one thing, but as long as the razor feel good, I think the only ones who will have a problem with it are us back seat sharpeners!:rant:

I started finding those scretches when I received my DMT x-fine (grit 1200) and used it to "pre-set" bevels before going to coticule+slurry. I think that scretches are left by "steel slurry", fragments of steel mixed with water on the diamond plate. I use plenty of water (lot of water every 10 laps) but: (a) in part I still can see some steel floating on the plate while honing; (b) if I clean the plate under running water and then I touch the surface with my fingers, I find a lot of black compound still on the surface..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by randydance062449

The other is slurry and also pressure. .

Just my observations,:)

---

+lower grit stones while you are setting bevel.
will have all blades wedges ,hallows etc.usually 1k.

Natural or artificial stone? It can happen with both but there are some notoriously "dirty" stones that make me crazy when using them because they're unpredictable in their result.

Wow, I didn't see this one resurrected from the dead. Since originally posting, I have just paid more attention to not trying to go too fast and I rarely get these anymore. I have found it is sometimes just errant grit from slurry or whatever and can't be avoided. At that point I start cursing and go back to grind/polish the scratch out.

I am glad to see someone bring this up. I have honed wedges and the same thing happened. I still have not achieved the perfect mirror, but in my close attempt, I have had to go back and try to buff out light scratched off the blade. My bevels though usually look pretty clean off the Norton 8 and then improve more with the chinese 12K. I hope you find the solution because it would be a great help.