Shapton 16K help question

I've been using a norton 4K 8K for a while now with good results. I recently decided to treat myself and buy a Shapton 16K to see if I could get better results (not that I'm dissatisfied with the norton results - but there is always a better......)

After lapping the new shapton 16K on 1200 wet and dry on a very flat polished porcelain tile, it was super smooth and flat. In fact, without the wet and dry, just water on the tile the Shapton 16K would slide perfectly on the layer of water between the two. showing that it was probably a true flat surface. I digress.

After moving from the 4K to the 8K the razor slid with a silky smooth action on the 8K as usual. Then moving onto the 16K the action was almost gritty / bumpy - not as smooth as the 8K, it did not slide with the same silky smoothness I've become accustomed to with the norton. After use the surface of the Shapton had quite a few .5mm to 1mm grey dots that are impossible to detect by feeling. In fact the Shapton is silky smooth. It has a sort of mottled sheen to it. I was expecting the action to be silky smooth being a finer stone, not harsh and jittery. You can see the feint grey smears of metal particles down the length of the shapton after use.

The shave afterwards was OK but only OK not what I expected (I've had better results from just using my 4/8K then a pasted stop and normal stopping before use.

I hear such glowing reports with the Shapton 16K

Any help would be gratefully received.

Jon

PS Thank you to everybody here I've learned so much over the past year. Great Web site :)

Jon:

When you're honing on the 16K, are you drawing the razor perpendicular (head on) across the length of the stone? The 16K ceramic as you've mentioned is extremely smooth. So smooth that believe it or not, the width of the spine contacting the stone and the width of the razor bevel, as small as they are can stick (aka "stiction") to the hone surface. This can cause chatter or some have described the sensation as honing with honey on the surface.

Tilting the razor (still keeping it flat on the stone) or skewing it with the heel at approx 30-45 degrees helps reduce or for me eliminate stiction. The steel swarf you see is to be expected. The gritty feel, if you also meant that you're experiencing that I have no clue. I've never had such a problem on the 16K and I've never heard of anyone also reporting such an experience. Keep in mind, the smallest piece of dust on the surface of such smooth stones will be noticeable and unpleasent. Frequent refreshing with water on the surface helps wash off any dust in the air that lands on the stone and also removes excess swarf.

Chris L

Exact same setup as I was using until this past June when I got the whole Shapton set...
Chris is dead on ...
Also here is one more trick, rub the 16k on the 8k after you lap it on the 1200 sandpaper, this will give a much smoother honing surface... Make sure you use ample water when doing this, and afterward to wash away any stray girt transfer....

Thanks Chris and glen

Chris I'm honing on the 16K with the sharp edge forward as I would do normally on the 4K 8K Norton (should I be honing with the spine first as in stropping on the 16K ??)

I received a couple of new razors today from classic and i honed them up - when I got to the 16K I used the angle you suggested and it is better as well as very light pressure barely more than the weight of the razor and that also helped but there still is a slight coarseness / harshness to the friction. Not as in honey and not as smooth as the 8K.

It was almost as if the sharp edge was trying to dig into the surface, without digging in. if that makes sense.

I shaved with one of the new razors afterwards and it was OK but only OK. but still better than my first attempts.

any other suggestions

many thanks

Jon

Glen

i used the 8K on the 16K and yes it made it even smoother but still this slight harshness not silky smooth

Jon

Hi Jon:

You lapped it smooth on 1200 grit wet dry. That's good. Did you draw a pencil grid on the surface of the 16K and lap until the grid was completely gone? Drawing a second pencil grid and lapping until the second is gone (should be quick the second time around) is a good idea.

The other thing that occurred to me: Did you bevel the edges of the stone? Sometimes impreceptably tilting the blade when honing can drag the edge across the corner of a stone making for a terrible noise. A bevel or a radius (I prefer a rounded radius) eliminates that problem.

Otherwise, I'm stumped. I've owned the Norton 4/8 and own the 16k. The 8k is smooth but is not a comparison to the 16k.

Chris L