I was wondering where Heavyduty's thesis about the edge uniformity test was? (The one that got the whole basic and advanced honing subsections started). I can't find it and it's a pretty important (IMHO) thread.
Thanks,
Mark
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I was wondering where Heavyduty's thesis about the edge uniformity test was? (The one that got the whole basic and advanced honing subsections started). I can't find it and it's a pretty important (IMHO) thread.
Thanks,
Mark
The original thread was posted by David "Heavyduty" Polan, on BadgerandBlade. Section 6-6, Sharpness Tests Vs. Edge Uniformity Tests - Bevel Creation Guide - Badger & Blade
I think a reworked version is in the Wiki: Bevel Creation Guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki.
Bart.
Hey guys, I am honored that someone felt that my article was important enough to put in the shave Wiki, but I am surprised, disappointed, and feel disrespected that someone took my post from another forum, made a few minor changes (just changing my "I's" to "We"), and did not ask or give the original author credit for the ideas and work and posted it as community work without any citations. This was done without my knowledge or approval. Isn’t this plagiarism or am I missing something? I would like to know who was responsible for this and why I was not informed. When I originally posted this article before the forum crash several of the most respected members of the forum outright insulted me for this article, and I made the conscious decision not to post it here again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart
David
I am going to assume that whoever made that page did so as an honest mistake, and if that is the case then they need to read these pages so they have an idea of what they are doing:
Plagiarism.org : Learning Center : Plagiarism Definitions, Tips on avoiding Plagiarism, Guidelines for proper citation, & Help Indentifying Plagairism
Plagiarism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This community is supposed to be made up of gentleman and I hope that we won't have this type of problem in the future or else I will not be a part of it.
Thank you, I will contact him and see if he knows what happened here.
In the history page of that Wiki entry, you can see in detail who posted, and who did the subsequent editing. Revision history of "Bevel Creation Guide" - Straight Razor Place Wiki
BeBerlin has put a lot of effort in giving the Wiki a good start. I believe the idea was to dug out valuable info of (old) threads and give them a more permanent display in the Wiki fromat.
I think it would be much better to contact the original poster and encourage him (or assist him) to transfer his writings to the Wiki. I have suggested that on another thread, but BeBerlin was opposed against it. http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...tml#post288902
Clearly, David, your rights were violated, but I'm very sure the people involved were not acting for their personal profit. They just tried to make the best possibe Wiki. I hope you can come to an agreement.
Excuse me for linking to the article it in this thread. I was unaware that it was put there without your aproval. Maybe it helps to know that I gave you credit for your vast and generously shared knowledge about honing, in one of my own Wiki entries. A simple honing method with DMT-E , Belgian Blue Whetstone and Coticule - Straight Razor Place Wiki
Best regards,
Bart.
Let me begin by clearly stating that this discussion is based on an honest mistake, combined with a gap in the communication between me, another member, and yourself. I have detailled that in a PM I just sent to you.
On a semi-related note, I would like to comment on one point here:
Just for the record, the only copyright notice I can find on B&B is the one in their Wiki. This happens to be Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 2.5 Generic - if you want to effectively protect your work from being used anywhere else, you will need to publish it under another license.Quote:
Originally Posted by heavydutysg135
As I said: Sincere apologies offered, and I hope, accepted. I have taken the page off the Wiki until you declare this issue settled.Quote:
Originally Posted by heavydutysg135
With all due respect, I cannot quite see how you come to the conclusion that I suggested that the original poster should not be contacted. Point in case, someone else said I need not contact David. Obviously, this was a mistake, I offered my apologies, the offending Wiki entry is removed - case settled as far as I am concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart
Just for the record, I suggested that the copyright issue be clarified when the Wiki was launched, and have contacted each and every member whose material was used in the Wiki (David being the sole exception).
And one more thing: I started replacing the first person narrative with third person when we published this article: Brands of Straight Razors to avoid - Straight Razor Place Wiki . We even got a lawyer involved for this one. As much as I can understand David's being upset, I object any insinuation of wilful copyright infringement.
wouldn't it be enough to publish articles as originally written with a citing of the writer? I'm not familiar with legalities etc. but figure that would be cool right?
I read part of this article, just out of curiosity, and found the third person to be a bit awkward. for me it would make more sense written in the first person. If oriinally written for a wiki I'd like it without any person at all (whatever that would be called). for instance (and ahead of time heavyduty Please don't take offense at me using this sentence, just for an example.
as written first sentence:
I decided to make this thread to teach people how I assess the edge quality at the most important step in the honing process, the bevel creation stage.
if I were given permission to edit it:
The purpose of this thread is to teach people a method for assessing the edge quality at the most important step in the honing process, the bevel creation stage.
I haven't read the rest of the wiki, just saying how I would write them up if it were me. I don't of course have enough knowledge to contribute the wiki (and can't for some reason my login doesn't carry over to the wiki, I tried it last night).
anyways, hope you guys all work it out. I will say that heavyduty sure knows how to hone, the razor I bought from him shaved fantastic for a long time.
Red
Yes, I think that's what should have been done. I feel silly for not having searched out his authorship when I first saw the wiki article. And of course upon the author's request it should be removed (as it was)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Red
Heavydutysg's contributions to this and other forums have been very valuable to me and I am sure to many others. I hope he will edit the Wiki entry to his satisfaction and allow it to remain. Too bad about the misunderstanding. From here on out I am sure that anyone putting someone else's posting in the Wiki will get permission and give attribution.
This particular entry was my idea. BeBerlin has always expressed concern about copyright and attribution to the original authors.
This entry existed both on SRP and B&B forums, but after the server crash the SRP copy was lost. I did not realize David consciously decided to not put it back, but I told BeBerlin to take the B&B copy and put it into the wiki. I believe there are no copyright violations in the process, but we all resepect other people's desires and are not going to use somebody's work against their will, even if it's legal to do so.
It's unfortunate that for whatever reason David didn't get contacted about this, but mistakes have happened and will continue to happen - part of real life. One thing I'm sure of is there was no bad intention in all this whatsoever, just respect for the excellent guide and desire to give it more visibility. It's apparently been very helpful to many people and it will be missed.
In fact some things I posted in my thread "About Blues and Yellows" were also added to the Wiki. I don't mind about that, because I know that I'm "typing in the public domain" whenever I write something on the forum. But for the record: no one asked my permission. I don't care, I even thanked the one making the effort. Nevertheless, I still believe it would have been better to first ask me if I was prepared to do the job myself. I would have tweaked my words and left out a few statements that I consider to speculative to be presented in the Wiki as solid information.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeBerlin
"We" is not third person. It's first person plural. Replacing "I" by "we" may be a legal trick to avoid certain problems (I don't know:shrug:), but it doesn't make an article more objective.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeBerlin
I have not insinuated that. Quite the contrary. I know that the you, Gugi and Hoglahoo (the names that turn up in the history of that particular wiki entry) only had the best possible intentions, as I already stated in my previous post. No need to feel attacked. But it is a golden rule to always fully rephrase information with your own words or otherwise be sure to cite with references to the original source.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeBerlin
My citicism is only meant to be constrictive. I admire you guys for doing such a great job, within such a short period. Only by doing nothing, one can avoid making mistakes.
Best regards,
Bart.
It looks like BeBerlin has been banned probably until such time that this is worked out.
I too found David's post as an excellent resource and recall printing it out, studying it like an article and even highlighting areas that were pertinent to me in my honing education at the time.
Hopefully this can be resolved.
Chris L
I read the last handful of his posts and must have missed the offense.:shrug:
Chris L
It seems that this was an honest and well intentioned mistake as I had originally thought and I completely accept the apologies that I was given. Furthermore, I appreciate the initiative, time, and effort that several people have taken in creating a straight razor wiki so that anyone can learn more about our great hobby. It is a difficult and time consuming process to create something worthwhile. As I said before I am honored that at least one person thought that my article was well enough written to deserve a permanent place in this great community, I would have only wished that I would have been contacted ahead of time regarding using my work and then been cited as the creator after approving it. If I had been contacted ahead of time I would have happily consented to having my article posted without modification. By changing the “I’s” in the article to “We’s” I believe that this implies that everything in the article is generally accepted knowledge on this forum and I know that this is not the case based on some of the comments that I received when I originally posted it here.
Well, one of the things about the Wiki is that it is able to be edited by anyone with the time or inclination. So technically nothing on the Wiki should be construed as set in stone, at least IMO.
I think we need to be a bit careful when throwing the "P" word around. While technically it is probably correct, we would not want a careful scrutiny of all our posts for proper attribution of all concepts used. For example, to whom do we attribute the HHT? Or the TPT? These are certainly not concepts that any of us came up with ourselves, yet they are used repeatedly in posts all over the forum.
Probably the safest way forward is to ask the OP to put their useful post on the Wiki themselves. This would avoid all sorts of problems of this nature. It is unfortunate that this did not happen in this particular case.
James.
David,Quote:
Originally Posted by heavydutysg135
This is very nice of you. I too believe it was just a mistake. There has been so much information shared not only between all the forums that I have seen, but from authors of copyrighted information as well. I appreciate you efforts regarding teaching people your experiences and methods of honing and I have appreciated Robin's efforts on the Wiki. I would hope that all of us here continue to assist in bringing new people into the art of straight razor shaving along with growing and perpetuating that art which we have learned to enjoy so much. Sharing this information has been the root of our success ever since I started the 1st straight razor forum. It is amazing how much of the original information and ideas that came from the original SRP are out there in all the other forums still.
Very best regards,
Lynn