Shapton 16K glass, I'm a believer ... with reservations

SRD put a Shapton 16K glass stone in the SRP classifieds. It has a chip on one side so they couldn't sell it out of the store. Went for $50 shipped so I thought I would see what all the fuss was about on the cheap.

I have the Shapton Pro series and have been very happy with the 15K. I had been told by Harrelson and by Howard that the glass stones were a different formula but I didn't think it made that much of a difference.

So my glass stone came in. I had been working on a Heljestrand mostly with a natural coticule and got a fair shave out of it. Next day I took it to the 16k and did 30 laps and it was better but needed more so the following day I did another 30 laps on the 16k. Now it was scary sharp and for my tender skin harsh.

I went back to the coticule with water only and did 30 laps. Seems that I am stuck on 30 laps. :shrug: Just as Bart posted and Randy told me going back to the previous grit level smoothed it out without sacrificing keenness and now it was perfect for me.

So I had gotten my Robert Williams dream razor last week and have been working on it for the past days when time permitted. I plan on doing a review on it so I won't detail the honing here but suffice to say that this morning after a lot of laps on the 16K I stropped and got a great first shave with it. Not too harsh either.

So my conclusion taking into consideration that I have only honed two razors with it is that the Shapton 16K glass is better then the Shapton 15K professional. I still think the 15k pro is a great stone but the glass stone out preformed mine so far.

Edit; When I say I have reservations it is because I have only honed two razors with the stone.

someone here on the forum stated that his stainless wacker didnt like the shapton g/s in 16k i think it was lt. arclight i prefer hones of a 2 inch width or a little less, the shaptons are fantastic hones though if you want to clean them off as you hone i found that to be the breaking point for me, love my couticle i bought from rob and my unmarked barber hone given to me by my barber. 20 laps on croox 25 linen 50 latigo and 50 horsehide and in shaving well, i dont mean to badmouth the shapton g/s hones the 16k probably wont require cleaning like my 2k and 6k g/s

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Originally Posted by jwoods

someone here on the forum stated that his stainless wacker didnt like the shapton g/s in 16k i think it was lt. arclight i prefer hones of a 2 inch width or a little less, the shaptons are fantastic hones though if you want to clean them off as you hone i found that to be the breaking point for me, love my couticle i bought from rob and my unmarked barber hone given to me by my barber. 20 laps on croox 25 linen 50 latigo and 50 horsehide and in shaving well, i dont mean to badmouth the shapton g/s hones the 16k probably wont require cleaning like my 2k and 6k g/s

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The Shapton glass stones are cutters to be sure. Did you find that the stones were loading for you? I do find after long honing sessions of multiple razors that I need to refresh the GS, but that doesn't bother me. I'm just wondering if you were saying that in your experience the GS and swarf give you bad results? More labor intensive?

Chris L

One thing I noticed on my 16k was that I got the dark swarf fairly quickly. On my Shapton pro 12k and 15k I don't get it that quickly. Also the pro in those grits are a cream color and a slurry begins to appear on both before too long. When I went to the 16 I was using weight of the blade with maybe + a wee bit. If I was honing as Harrelson does on the video he and Howard made I would have to refresh the stone often whether it was the glass or the pro.

I agree, swarf on the bright white stones is produced very quickly. But I don't find that the swarf becomes an issue where I feel the stone is loaded unless I'm honing for quite awhile.

Chris L

I hone at the kitchen sink so every now and then with whatever I am using I give it a rinse and spin it around to spread the wear. I haven't honed enough with the 16 to really "know" the stone but it definitely impressed me.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

So my conclusion taking into consideration that I have only honed two razors with it is that the Shapton 16K glass is better then the Shapton 15K professional. I still think the 15k pro is a great stone but the glass stone out preformed mine so far.

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Lynn came to the same opinion about the 15K vs the 16K after honing a pile of razors. I'd say that you are in good company with your conclusion.:tu

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I went back to the coticule with water only and did 30 laps. Seems that I am stuck on 30 laps. :shrug: Just as Bart posted and Randy told me going back to the previous grit level smoothed it out without sacrificing keenness and now it was perfect for me.

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and yet the idea of a pyramid is so elusive . . . :hmmm:

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

and yet the idea of a pyramid is so elusive . . . :hmmm:

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I don't quite know if I get your point. I was talking to a very experienced honer and I told him I intended to use the 4/8 pyramid since I have gotten such good results with it.

He said that I would find that if I just stayed on the 4 until I got to where I wanted to be I could go to the 8 and I would find in the end I would have the same results. Maybe so but I am a believer in if it is working why fix it.

On the Harrelson video he says that the Shapton series is designed with the grit being doubled in the progression so 4 to 8 to 16 is ideal. He doesn't use the pyramid but rather progressive honing using the same method as he uses for plane blades adapted to razors........ but that is another topic. :shrug:

One difference about the Sweet 16 you have to watch is that it is a great finisher, but probably has more cutting power than any other stone in that grit range... I am very, very, careful about not going over 20 laps with that stone, if the blade isn't sharp/smooth enough at that level with 20 laps you might want to look at a lower grit and figure out what you missed... Also the Shapton's seem to like their own company better than other stones, in other words their progression works well together better than mixing the stones before using them...
As to an issue with super hard chippy razor's ie: Wacker's I haven't noticed that on the Shapton stones any more than any other synthetic stones, Wacker's seem to like naturals better, so you just have to be extra careful well taking them out for a ride...

These are just of course some of my own personal observations.....

I guess I will add my experience with the 16K. I notice I clean my stone [with a scotch bright pad] after 3 or 4 razors as it seems to cut better when I do. I don't lap [Just a few swirls] until session is over. As was said even being a polisher it cuts very fast. When in final polish mode I use the 16K then the 30K and always use CrO after the 30K. I have shaved directly off of the 30K and still felt a little ragged. I really like what the CrO does to the ultra sharp 30K blade. I do about 30 passes with the CrO.

bj

I don't know about you guys but I have to clean (or turn it around depending on the stroke I'm using) about every 10 or 15 laps. The black stays on the stone and very little gets suspended in the water. It's almost like dragging a graphite rod across the stone. If not the first stroke you start seeing it in the first few. By 10 or so laps you can feel it. I use just a very light pressure biased towards the edge. Run it under the tap and most of it comes off with a couple of light swipes of my fingers and the rest with a few light scrubs with a scotchbright pad.

I have used the glass 16K on over a thousand razors and most times over a dozen at a sitting. I rarely use more than 10 strokes and only clean or lap the stone when I'm done so it's ready for the next time.

It has been a very consistent stone and I also go to either the diamond spray on felt or cromium oxide before the leather.

Lynn

I dont have a 16 or 30k. It seems rather odd to find that edge harsh or raggedy... I would think perhaps microchips or wire edge.

Have you looked? everytime I feel like the edge is harsh, there is something besides a smooth even looking edge.
Just asking

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Originally Posted by kevint

I dont have a 16 or 30k. It seems rather odd to find that edge harsh or raggedy... I would think perhaps microchips or wire edge.

Have you looked? everytime I feel like the edge is harsh, there is something besides a smooth even looking edge.
Just asking

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Yes Kevin I have. I think I have sensitive skin. I can't shave more then two passes without irritation no matter what I use (DE or straight) and with a DE the first shave was usually a bit harsh feeling (with a Feather). I always use magnification 30X before during and after honing. I don't leave chips if they are there to start with and rarely cause them with my honing. Thanks for asking though. :tu

I love my Shapton stones, and going all the way up to the 16k
leaves me with an edge that I can either take straight to the
linen, or to any of my natural finishers for a different feeling
finish.

- Scott

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Just as Bart posted and Randy told me going back to the previous grit level smoothed it out without sacrificing keenness and now it was perfect for me.

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:)
Please let the record show, that I don't think about finishing on a Cotciule with water as "going back". Randy has a ton of experience on a wide variety of hones, so I'm sure he meant something useful when he made his statement about going back to the previous grit. Maybe my experiences with the Coticule fall within Randy's observations, maybe not.
It might very well be possible that mixing a "toothier" pattern with a more polished pattern, can yield the best combination of the avidness of the former to sever hair, with the smoothness of the latter to glide over the skin without scraping it. I can see how that could be one of the advantages of doing pyramids. But I have not looked into that so far and can't make any valid statements about it.

Thanks for comparing the Shapton 15K with the 16K glass, Jimmy. You sure made me wish I had the chance of trying a 16K.
Luckily I have no HAD (only a slight CAD), so I don't have to crave for one.
Now would you please excuse me, I have to go stare at my Chosera 10K a bit...:eek:

:D

Bart.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Yes Kevin I have. I think I have sensitive skin. I can't shave more then two passes without irritation no matter what I use (DE or straight) and with a DE the first shave was usually a bit harsh feeling (with a Feather). I always use magnification 30X before during and after honing. I don't leave chips if they are there to start with and rarely cause them with my honing. Thanks for asking though. :tu

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I don't think my skin is sensitive too much. I am unclear on what it means really, and often seems to be different interprertaions of :harsh I have been meaning to get a loupe. I guess I worry that if it isnt B and L or something, it wouldn't satisfy. With my radio shack microscope, some of what you see, you don't know what it is. lighting , light reflecting, so i try to correlate what i see with what i feel.

I don't have 30x so I don't know if anything is lost or gained in the view. I can get a smooth feeling shave with 8k and leather; or a miserable prickly one- especially with no strop at all.
I can't get a clean shave, i think because it takes too much pressure = too much skin movement. It isnt harsh it's just too dull.

what you describe sounds, could be symptomatic of a wire edge. It would be interesting to know if 4 strokes might make the difference to smooth shaving....

Makes me glad I went with the glass over the pro series. I don't have much to compare to but I've been loving it.

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Originally Posted by kevint

what you describe sounds, could be symptomatic of a wire edge. It would be interesting to know if 4 strokes might make the difference to smooth shaving....

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What I describe in terms of irritation beyond two passes occurs whether I shave with a DE with a Gillette Swede, Feather, Derby, IP, Merkur, Wilkinson..... straights honed by me, Lynn, The Topher, Tim Zowada, Mastro Livi, Joe Chandler. I don't see a wire edge with the 30x and I think it just may be my skin. :hmmm:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

What I describe in terms of irritation beyond two passes occurs whether I shave with a DE with a Gillette Swede, Feather, Derby, IP, Merkur, Wilkinson..... straights honed by me, Lynn, The Topher, Tim Zowada, Mastro Livi, Joe Chandler. I don't see a wire edge with the 30x and I think it just may be my skin. :hmmm:

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Thanks for trying to answer;)
you're not the only one Ive asked for a correlation between visuals and what is felt as harsh.