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Since the 12k Chinese stone is so hard, I was wondering if anyone has used it as a dressing stone to maintain Shaptone stone of finer grits like the 16000(Like a mild lapping stone that leaves a smooth surface). I know some are using it as a slurry stone already, but I thought it might have applications for reducing the need to do more drastic lapping on the Shapton stones. For the price I ordered a couple from Woodcraft, shipping is free right now if anyone else has been considering one.
Mike
I have several myself, and I sell the C12k slurries. A small piece of the larger C12k stone. As far as using it as a "Dressing Stone" I'm not sure. They are far from being flat when purchased and need to be lapped, which can be a job depending on the condition of the 12k. When you say "Shapstone" You mean, "Shapton" correct. The only thing I would use on a Shapton is the DGLP. Maybe a D8xx followed by wet/dry sandpaper. Would the Chinese 12k have much effect on a Shapton, I doubt it, but I could be wrong. It would probably raise a slurry, but why would you want to raise a 12k slurry natural on a 16k ceramic? Experimentation is fine, but you normally want to keep your slurries the same as the host stone. Some guys don't believe in slurries at all and feel it you need to go lower in grit, use a lower grit stone. I also think you may be confused about the Chinese 12k. They are used with a slurry, not as a slurry. The are very slow finishers. 100 laps is the norm, or it can be reduced by raising a slurry to 50 laps. Even though the Chinese 12k is a lower grit than the Shapton 16k, it's still very smooth and will not lapp or dress a shapton if that is your intent. Lapping a Chinese 12k can be a job in itself, Even with the right tools, with a D8XX, DMT of choice for stone lapping, or D8C, just be sure to use plenty of water while lapping it can take some time, I've heard some members say ti took them hours to lapp theirs. I know Maximillian uses Shaptons and so does Chris L, Check with them, I would think some wet/dry sandpaper and a tile, or the DGLP, expensive, but worth it if your a shapton user. ... I just woke up, and apologize if I've taken your thread out of context.
Rich
I was wondering given that the 12k stone are reportadly so hard they might abrade the ceramic shapton equally and keep it in optimum shape. I have a x course DMT for lapping but have not needed it yet for my 16000 shapton. I have gotten by so far with rubing the swarf off with run water and finger pressure.
M
I see. I do not have a Shapton yet, which if you knew me, you'd find hard to believe. I'm working on it. My friends over at straightrazordesigns are out now. So, I don't have much experience with the Shaptons. You just want to refresh the surface? Check with Chris L or Maximillian....I can't see how that would hurt, but I honestly don't know that it'd do any good? I'm curious myself now....Rich
I sometimes do that. The Chinese hone is so hard that it usually produces slurry on other stones while staying intact. It works quite well when I am too lazy to work with my lapping glass plate.
The 8k Shapton is way way way softer than the C12K and responds to lapping on it well. It needs to be lapped before every honing session, sometimes during honing too.
I only have Shapton 16000 glass and 12000 pro. I use DMT XC for lapping Nortons but do not like to lap shaptons with DMT. I was hoping to have a nice Lapped Chinese 12K and maintain the Shaptons upper grits that way. I am glad to hear there might be some merrit to the idea and it at least deserves some attention. I think shaptons as polishers are at their finest with a very slick surface and not larger scratches.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparq
If you are getting by with that on the courser grit Shaptons maybe the finer grits make even more sense to do that way sinse they only seem to need minor lapping anyway. I have lapped my pro sereis lightly with DMT then smoothed it with other stones but it seems too aggressive approach on such fine stones. I ordered a couple of 12 K last night and will get them in a few days to try it out too.
Mike
I can say I tried this 5 min ago, using the Chinese 12k on a Belgian Blue and a Shapton 16k.
Results? It worked really well! The Ch12k wasn't even touched, I don't think it lost a single particle, but it produced white slurry on the Shapton and a Purplish slurry on the BBW! I don't think the Ch12k could ever serve as your only lapping stone, but it definitely works great when smoothing out the scratch pattern left from a DMT D8X or D8C.
Note: To overcome the immense stiction, I used very warm water, and turned the sink faucet up full blast while "lapping" with both hands.
Wow, what a great follow up. Did you try either stone out after you lapped them? I am looking foward to getting the 12K and trying it out. To overcome the sticktion some kerfs cut in might help on a dedicated stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntmol
Thanks!!!!:rock:
Mike
Not to rain on your parade or anything but... Isn't sandpaper even cheaper?
We could use some rain this time of the year down here in the deep south.:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by Leighton
Sure sand paper is an option and to some the best way to sharpen and lap too. Personally, I like the convenience of having something ready that can be used quickly. That is why I bought C DMT. I have a sharpening station I just finished arranging in my little studio and I find convenience gives me the inspiration to keep my tools and razors sharp all the time. If I can make a dedicated tool to keep my Shaptons in optimum condition that is easy I am likely to do it and not procrastinate.
At this point, it is too early to say the idea is even good but it is at least it is worth entertaining and there are other members ahead of me on this one.
M
I bought my Chinese 12k to sharpen razors, :D not smooth out scratch patterns on hones, so it was free for me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Leighton
I probably wouldn't buy one just for that purpose, though.
If you can keep your Shaptons flat with the C12k then it must be working. I would not have thought it would cut fast enough to be practical for that purpose, but I don't have one, so there.
Back before I had lapping stones, I used barber hones to do the job. It was very slow, but it worked. More recently, I was lapping with a coarse DMT, and I took out the remaining scratches with a Swaty. So long as everything is non-porus and you're not getting grit embedded in stones, I don't see why not.
And in the long run it should be cheaper than sandpaper, since the stones will take quite some time to "run out."
For what it worth, I cut grooves in my 12k like a Norton flatening stone and lapped it with an Extra coarse DMT and chamfered ALL edges. I have been flatening my Shapton 16000, 12000 and my Norton 8000. The 12k leaves the surface on the polishing stones better than any other method I have used and it does so with cosiderable speed. I believe the mode of how it works is because the 12k is so hard relative to the other stones. So as many of us would LOVE to flatten with a fine DMT we now know that would quickly destroy the Nickel binder. I believe the 12k once flat will stay that way for a long time and only need an occasional lap to keep it true. By the very nature of these finer water stones, I always like to keep them optimum but not to wear them down so fast, so for the price of the 12k give it a try, it works for me and it can work for you!Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
Even if you flatten with a DGLP I believe the "12k Lapper" will give your polishing stone that etra finese that will afford more effective abrasive to bevel contact.
Mike
Well, I read this thread and due to recently lapping some of my stones and deciding not to use my dmt1200 anymore, I figured I would try what Kingfish(Mike) has already done. I modified one side of my Chinese 12k a bit to look like a Norton lapping plate and must admit that it works very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingfish
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w...nese12kMod.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w...ese12kMod2.jpg