Shapton 30k Usage

Printable View

05-17-2009, 02:08 AM
sebell

Shapton 30k Usage

Hi folks,

My Shapton 30k GS arrived from HMS today, and
I was wondering if there was anyone around who
uses this hone on a regular basis. If so, how do
you use it in your own progressions?

I'm currently using 1,2,4,8,16k Shapton GS hones,
followed by an 8x3" Nakayama. Usually I do 20-
30 stokes on the Nakayama and seldom more than
15 on the Shapton 16k. I don't finish with pastes
currently but I've used CrO before.

It's hard to see where this stone would fit, but I'm
eager to experiment :)

- Scott
05-17-2009, 02:26 AM
zib

I was under the impression that you don't need to do anything after the Nakayama's. Maybe I'm confused. I'm thinking of buying a Shaton 16k, to use as my final polishing hone. I just finished a Wade and Butcher on the Naniwa 12k, and shaved right off it, very impressive....I'm wondering if I'll notice an improvement after the 16k. I would think for you, the 30k would be the end, maybe some cro2, but that's it...
05-17-2009, 02:33 AM
sebell

Here are some options I can think of:

- use it before the Nakayama
- use it after the 16k instead of the Nakayama

- use it normally with edge forward honing motion
- use it with a stropping motion

I have Howard and Harrelson's DVD on its way,
so perhaps it will have some more information
about using the 30k.

- Scott
05-17-2009, 02:40 AM
sebell

Quote:

Originally Posted by zib

I was under the impression that you don't need to do anything after the Nakayama's. Maybe I'm confused. I'm thinking of buying a Shaton 16k, to use as my final polishing hone. I just finished a Wade and Butcher on the Naniwa 12k, and shaved right off it, very impressive....I'm wondering if I'll notice an improvement after the 16k. I would think for you, the 30k would be the end, maybe some cro2, but that's it...

It's hard to say how this will compare to the
Nakayama. Lynn wasn't getting consistent
results with this hone, and the Nakayama is
so nice to hone with and gives such a smooth
edge every time.

From what I've heard, the Naniwa finishes
very well -- probably on par with the 16k.
Man, the Naniwa 12k and Shapton 16k are
available at a great price for such good
finishing hones!

- Scott
05-17-2009, 02:51 AM
zib

If you don't have any, I highly recommend the Naniwa's. They are inexpensive, and give excellent results. I'll probably buy the entire set. I hear good things about the Nakayama's. The Japanese naturals are nice hones, probably inconsistent because they're natural. I haven't pulled the trigger on any yet, I've been in touch with OS a few times, but haven't done it yet. I'm looking forward to the 16k, I hope it improves my edge. Good luck with your 30k. Post your results and let us know....
05-17-2009, 03:08 AM
JimmyHAD

I've got a 30k professional but I have only used it a few times. Not that it isn''t a good finisher .... the few times I used it I liked the results. I use naturals lately more than the Shaptons and I just don't feel the need unless it is something special.

I have the video and Harrelson says on there that he thinks that doubling the grit in a progression is the most effective way. So IMO your 30k would follow the 16k. That is exactly what Harrelson does and the theory behind the GlassStone series.

If it was me I would stop at the 30k for a few razors and see what you think. You know what the Nakayama will do so shaving off of the 30 should be an interesting comparison with a razor that you know. Please keep us posted on your results. I may wipe the dust off of mine and give it a go too. You've inspired me. :tu
05-17-2009, 11:57 AM
2Sharp

I've had the 30K about six months or so and use it at the end of the progression with my other Shaptons. I use it after the 16K and before the CrO paddle. When I need a touchup I use the 16K a few strokes then the 30K then the CrO. It works for me.

bj
05-17-2009, 05:38 PM
xChris

I use the SGS 30K as my last hone whenever I put a fresh edge onto a razor. 9 times out of 10, it is the last abrasive the edge meets before going to linen/canvas and leather. The other 1 out of 10 is me experimenting with other hones or pastes.
05-17-2009, 11:59 PM
DwarvenChef

I was under the impression that Cr02 was a larger micron size that the 30k shapton. How would going from the finer 30k to the leather and cr02 improve an edge?

To my thinking it may have something to do with the shape of the cutting grit, like with diamond vs garnet grit.

Or am I just thinking to much after work on faulty brain cells :p
05-18-2009, 12:33 AM
Lynn

I would recommend trying the 30K after the 16K in increments of 5 strokes at a time and see how it works for you after each 5. A lot of times for me, 10 strokes right off ends up being very harsh.

Have fun,

Lynn
05-18-2009, 04:25 AM
RayG

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebell

Hi folks,

My Shapton 30k GS arrived from HMS today, and
I was wondering if there was anyone around who
uses this hone on a regular basis. If so, how do
you use it in your own progressions?

I'm currently using 1,2,4,8,16k Shapton GS hones,
followed by an 8x3" Nakayama. Usually I do 20-
30 stokes on the Nakayama and seldom more than
15 on the Shapton 16k. I don't finish with pastes
currently but I've used CrO before.

It's hard to see where this stone would fit, but I'm
eager to experiment :)

- Scott

Scott, I don't want to be impertinent, but I can't help but ask... I thought you said you had cut down to only one razor, the SRP Livi? What for all the hones? :)
05-18-2009, 11:28 AM
riooso

I would make sure to finish with Chromium Oxide though. I have found that it is the one thing one can do that will add mountains of smoothness to a shave.

R
05-18-2009, 12:16 PM
2Sharp

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

I was under the impression that Cr02 was a larger micron size that the 30k shapton. How would going from the finer 30k to the leather and cr02 improve an edge?

To my thinking it may have something to do with the shape of the cutting grit, like with diamond vs garnet grit.

Or am I just thinking to much after work on faulty brain cells :p

The CrO is approximately the same micron size as the 30K Shapton. The CrO does indeed smooth the edge of the 30K. It is like adding Carnuba Wax to the edge.

bj
05-19-2009, 12:19 AM
xChris

I have more disappoining results from chromium oxide than positive ones. the resulting edge from it almost always seems less keen (sounds a lot like my complaints with a coticule, huh).

Apparently, I like having an edge with "bite." For me, the SGS 30K gives a super smooth edge and the keenness that I'm looking for.
05-19-2009, 01:17 AM
riooso

I have found that when it comes to edges it is definitely a personal thing. I have found, for Chromium, the harder the steel the better the results. I use to shave off 0.25 diamond and really liked it but when I went to Chromium I found that I can get a razor to sharp. I know, I know, some will say to sharp is not possible and I use to be one of them but with Chromium I get shaves that are velvet smooth.

Richard
05-19-2009, 07:43 PM
Pete_S

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Sharp

The CrO is approximately the same micron size as the 30K Shapton. The CrO does indeed smooth the edge of the 30K. It is like adding Carnuba Wax to the edge.

bj

According to the Hand American CrO bottle, .5 micron CrO has an approximate grit of 60k. I don't know if this is correct or not.
05-19-2009, 08:07 PM
sebell

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayG

Scott, I don't want to be impertinent, but I can't help but ask... I thought you said you had cut down to only one razor, the SRP Livi? What for all the hones? :)

Well, Ray, I only have the Shapton GS series
and the Nakayama, so I'm not looking at much
duplication there :)

I'm interested in shaving and honing, but not
collecting. The idea is to have my own razor
(a favourite), and have plenty of time to hone
razors for other folks.

Regards,

- Scott
05-20-2009, 12:32 AM
riooso

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_S

According to the Hand American CrO bottle, .5 micron CrO has an approximate grit of 60k. I don't know if this is correct or not.

It is not if it is 0.5 micron Chromium Oxide. The rough formula is: Estimated Microns = (14755)/(Grit)

Using above formula for a 16K Shapton stone for instance:

Microns= (14755)/(16000)
= 0.922

The Shapton stone has the figure of 0.92 micron embossed under the glass. I have found this formula fairly reliable.

Take Care,
Richard
05-20-2009, 01:02 AM
sebell

Quote:

Originally Posted by riooso

It is not if it is 0.5 micron Chromium Oxide. The rough formula is: Estimated Microns = (14755)/(Grit)

Using above formula for a 16K Shapton stone for instance:

Microns= (14755)/(16000)
= 0.922

The Shapton stone has the figure of 0.92 micron embossed under the glass. I have found this formula fairly reliable.

Take Care,
Richard

Richard, this jives with the 30k: 0.4918 micron
by your formula, and 0.49 on the back of the
hone.

- Scott
05-20-2009, 12:39 PM
Kingfish

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebell

Richard, this jives with the 30k: 0.4918 micron
by your formula, and 0.49 on the back of the
hone.

- Scott

The problem I have with getting use from the numbers of the CrO is how the Cro is used. I look at it as an edge refiner and I imagine it breaking off micro burs in the grooves of the teeth. It also has a gentle abrasive factor involved but stopping off the edge is much different effect than honing it. Has it not been suggested that a stopping stroke or two on a hone corrects overhoning and gets rid of burs? Maybe an experiment with stropping on a 30K would be interesting. I would be more than happy to apply the scientific method if anyone wanted to donate a 30k shapton for my laboratory:gl:
Mike
05-20-2009, 01:59 PM
sebell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingfish

The problem I have with getting use from the numbers of the CrO is how the Cro is used. I look at it as an edge refiner and I imagine it breaking off micro burs in the grooves of the teeth. It also has a gentle abrasive factor involved but stopping off the edge is much different effect than honing it. Has it not been suggested that a stopping stroke or two on a hone corrects overhoning and gets rid of burs? Maybe an experiment with stropping on a 30K would be interesting. I would be more than happy to apply the scientific method if anyone wanted to donate a 30k shapton for my laboratory:gl:
Mike

I was thinking the same thing, Mike. However,
doing stropping strokes on the hone is a bit
different since it is flat and hard, as opposed
to the surfaces that you would apply CrO to.

Perhaps we'll see! :)

- Scott
05-20-2009, 03:13 PM
Kingfish

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebell

I was thinking the same thing, Mike. However,
doing stropping strokes on the hone is a bit
different since it is flat and hard, as opposed
to the surfaces that you would apply CrO to.

Perhaps we'll see! :)

- Scott

I think that is the great thing about this forum. Emprical results are shared any many practical solutions are shared, some silly one dismissed or revised.
Mike
05-22-2009, 03:28 AM
sebell

I used this hone for the first time tonight on a
brand new, beautiful TI "Le Canadien". Unlike
most of the razors from Dovo and TI that I've
honed from the factory, this blade was sharp
-- likely shave-ready sharp. I say likely because
I could feel a bit more pull when it was popping
arm hairs than I'd usually like, and I hadn't
shaved for a few days and was really looking
forward to a great one.

I did 10 easy strokes on the Shapton 16k, and
followed up with 5 strokes on the Shapton 30k.
I lapped both stones with the DGLP immediately
prior to use.

The blade had a nice smile, but the bevel was
extremely even and it felt great on the hone
with a slight rolling stroke.

The test shave was amazing, probably the best
edge I've shaved with. A+++ Will Hone Again,
in eBay parlance. :) I'll keep the feedback coming
once I spend more time using this hone.

- Scott
05-22-2009, 04:35 AM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebell

I was thinking the same thing, Mike. However,
doing stropping strokes on the hone is a bit
different since it is flat and hard, as opposed
to the surfaces that you would apply CrO to.

Perhaps we'll see! :)

- Scott

I can't swear to it but I have a vague recollection of someone suggesting they would try chrom ox on a Chinese 12K just to see if it would improve the 12K. I don't know if they (whomever it was) ever pursued it .... or if I imagined it. :gaah: I might even give it a try now that I brought it up.

Thanks for the report on the 30K with 5 strokes. The few times I have used mine I did more then that. I'm glad that Lynn recommeded the five and I will try that as well.
05-22-2009, 02:30 PM
sebell

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Thanks for the report on the 30K with 5 strokes. The few times I have used mine I did more then that. I'm glad that Lynn recommeded the five and I will try that as well.

Very helpful advice from the man himself. It
will take me some time to know when it is
appropriate to go back for 5 more, of course,
but this is a good starting point.

- Scott

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:15 PM.