"Back" breaking work

I recently purchased a W.H. Morley & Sons for $7. It had a tiny bit of rust on it and had a homemade oak handle. I say "had" because I removed the rust and the handle. I pinned my first handle on it. I'm going to pin again later when I can find another set of rails. I'll try and post a pic of the back and edge of the razor so you can see what I am talking about below.

Anyway...

I began to hone a nick with a Norton 220. After about 10 strokes I noticed that the edge was not even on both sides when I compared one side to the other. It was not even on from front to back on one side (more edge in middle).

I chose to correct the back of the blade instead of altering the stroke or edge. Now there is wear on the back but the edge is pretty much even on both sides and from front to back on each side.

Is altering the back of the blade a recommended technique? Seems like the blade edge would not sit right on the hone if the back were not correct. Have I ruined the razor with the hone wear? I estimate the width of the wear is about 1/16" to 3/32".

Also, to my dissapointment, I found that my flattening stone from Norton was not flattening my water stones and so all the work I did was not "flat". I had a frown developing. I've since purchased a granite tile and wet/dry sandpaper as recommended _somewhere_ on this forum and flattened all my stones. I re-sharpened the razor with tape on the back and worked out the slight frown that was forming.

Razor shaves okay but I have a feeling it should shave better. I know it is sharp enough to pop hairs on my arm when held off the skin. Only problem is that when I shave with it it seems to pull a lot and I have to pulse the razor downward to get it to cut. Maybe I reduced the angle too much and now cannot get a good bevel and so the edge deteriorates quickly during a shave?

advice is welcome.

Andrew

Here are the images

You need to get one of those Radio Shack microscopes, they can magnify 30-100x and only cost 15$. It will let you see what the actual edge looks like. My guess is that you need more finishing/polishing strokes on the razor or try stropping your razor about 100xafter the honing. Without seeing the razor up close and personal I can only guess.

it looks like there is a nick close to heel? is this right or just picture?
i would say you need to set bevel first and move on forward.
hope this help.

I think for you to get the full benefit of the people here you'll have to give more detail about your honing. Where you went after the 220, what stones/pastes you used, ect. I don't think anything is wrong with the razor, it looks ok in your pictures.

But if I had to guess I'd also say it need more time on a finishing hone, maybe a few with a few light honing pyramids first.

+1 on Pete. For more assistance on honing we need to know detailed specifics. Little things matter.

+1 on Bud, looks like a chip at the heal.

I wouldn't worry about the nick in the heel. Since he's new to honing, I doubt he should be trying to reach that rounded off area of the blade anyway, as that would require an extreme rolling motion. That's likely to be beyond his current ability.

Bring it to the Missouri get together and I'll fix it up for you.

:rock:

Lynn

Just to clarify, my comment about the razor looking ok was about Andrew's bevel question, I wasn't disagreeing with Bud or anything... I'm neutral on the whole nick in the blade thing.

Okay, more details about the honing.

So far I've had three honing sessions on the razor.

First session was with spine TAPE and edge darkened with marker.
Norton 220: back and forth stroke (straight down hone, flip, and back). Did this until the dark edge was shiny.
Norton 1K: back and forth stroke until edge was as sticky as possible on TPT. This is when I started paying attention to the edge thickness. I also noticed some areas of the edge were not that great as far as TPT goes. I continued on because I wanted to shave.
Norton 4k and 8k: 20 x 4k, 5 x 8k, 15 x 4k, 10 x 8k, 10 x 4k, 15 x 8k, 5 x 4k, 20 x 8k
Stropped on a long strop 50 times.

At this time I noticed the center of the blade was not getting stropped. So I made an arch in the strop and did x strokes while stropping. The blade was sharp enough to shave but did not shave well. Then I checked the blade on a flat surface and it seemed like there was a gap between the blade and the surface in the middle of the blade but not on the ends.

I pondered what could be causing the gap. It came down to two possibilities. The stones are not flat and/or the back of the blade could be wider (fatter) in the center than the ends. Razor had very little wear on the back at that time and the wear was in the center.

The next day I went to Lowes and bought a granite tile and some wet/dry paper. I flattened the stones. They were higher in the center than the edges especially on the 1k.


Second sharpening session
NO TAPE
Norton 220: I massaged the blade back and forth ten times on each side to wear a flat spot on the back. The edge was darkened with marker each time so I could tell when the wear reached far enough to the toe and heal (far enough for me to be satisfied). The edge started to even out starting in the center first, moving toward spine and toe (As expected). I did this until edge was even (to my standards). The result is the spine wear you see in the pics.

Norton 1k, 4k, 8k: I then added tape and continued with the same progression as in the first session.

The blade was much sharper but still pulled and would stick sometimes to where I had to back the blade up and do another cutting stroke to cut the hairs. I stropped total of about 150 times.

Third sharpening Session
I noticed that the blade still had somewhat of a frown and that it was not as sharp as another of my razors I honed. I used TAPE on the spine.
Norton 220: Only did 50 laps but used X stroke
Norton 1k: X stroke until as sticky as possible on TPT. Was good except for a small area in the center. Again I continued on because it was getting late and I wanted to shave.
Norton 4k, 8k: X stroke, Changed progression to 21 x 4k, 3 x 8k, 14 x 4k, 7 x 8k, 7 x 4k, 14 x 8k, 3 x 4k, 21 x 8k.
Stropped on long strop 50 times. Started to shave, stropped 30 more times. Shaved much better but still sticks and pulls around mouth and under chin.
Two days later I used a barber hone about 8 times. Stropped another 60.
Same result. Edge looks very shiny and smooth except for small area in the center.

My concern is that I wore the back (spine) down to much and changed the angle to where it wont hold a keen edge. That's why I put the pics up; to look at the wear on the back or spine.

Thanks for the help!!

P.S. Lynn
Wish I could bring it to MO. Expecting a baby in the next week. :-)
Traveling is out.

Thanks for the offer though. Another time?

Andrew

Why don't you send it to Lynn --- He can take it to MO for demonstration purposes. Jerry:thinking::gaah::D

How am I supposed to learn anything by doing that?
:confused:

It may be that the blade is warped. Did you notice if the ink in the center of the blade, opposite the side that seems to not hone, was coming off more quickly then the ink on the rest of the blade on that side? If your nortons are not combo stones you can use the sides to hone the blade (use a narrow hone, in other words). If not you'll just have to find a stroke that hits that section of the blade, prolly a rolling-X stroke. This thread has some explanation, much better than I could do--

http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...ped-blade.html

You might also consider a pasted paddle strop. Since you're able to get the blade "in the neighborhood" of where it needs to be you could prolly get it there completely with 1 micron and .5 micron pastes. Plus most don't like the shave off the 8k norton much, so that would let you get a better edge in general.

I get the impression, due to the fact that no one mentions it, that the spine wear is not that bad. Thank you all for your help!!

I would suggest a less coarse stone than a Norton 220 to do rebeveling. I like to use a DMT 1200. The diamonds are aggressive enough to do the work quickly and fine enough not to chew up the edge too badly. Was the heel of the blade like that before you honed it?

You are referring to the chip? Yes, there was a chip before honing. It was worse before. I did not hone it out completely, yet. My concern, again, was that I have removed to much material from the back or spine to try and get the edge to be even so I stopped honing it out.

I'm no expert at honing but it seems, at least with Norton water stones, that the 1000 doesn't remove material that fast. I guess I view using the 1000 to remove lots of material like a person who uses 300 grit sandpaper to sand down a rough cut on wood. You _can_ do it and it will work but it is quicker to use 80, 100, ..., 300 to get the same result in a fraction of the time.

I think I'll just tape the spine and work out the chip. Then go through the stone progression and see how it shaves.