Dmt 1200 for setting bevel

i have Dmt 1200 and 8000. i have used dmt 1200 a lot lately and recently find out my 1200 dmt is acting similar to 8000k?
Now i do understand because of a lot use it will loose diamonds slowly and sharpening quality will go down. What i don' t understand is this why it does fine job same as 8000k. diamonds should be larger size and always must leave deeper and larger scratch marks then dmt 8000.
Is anyone else has similar experience?
what do you guys think?

Both plates has been brake in before starting use. i use 8000 very rare
Suggestions welcome

what do you mean "same fine job"?

I find the DMTs to cut in such a way as to leave a razor sharper than a clay waterstone of similar grit rating but not nearly as smooth

Good question.
i check bevel of the blade after trying dmt 1200 and 8000.
At first when i start to use in the bevel it was clear i could see scratch marks of dmt 1200 is a lot larger then 8000.
Now there is no differences?
bevel looks exactly same on both after using it?
magnification is 100x

I misunderstood :o I have no idea why a 1200 would produce the exact same results as an 8000. Maybe it is a marketing ploy :medvl:

Do you mean that the DMT Extra Fine is "breaking in"?
The DMT hones are a bit harsh as first, after a few uses, they mellow out somewhat. Unless, I'm misunderstanding.....

That is strange. I believe I heard that the diamonds break down over time. Maybe as they break down the left over pieces are smaller and effectively cause a well worn 1200 to act like a higher grit diamond plate?

I don't have the EE (8000) but I can say for sure that my DMT 1200 leaves a wayyy coarser bevel than my norton 8k :shrug: It's also probably not nearly as worn in as yours, though. Are you thinking that your 1200 is just worn out now, or are you thinking that it's always behaved that way?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pjrage

Maybe as they break down the left over pieces are smaller and effectively cause a well worn 1200 to act like a higher grit diamond plate?

---

This is exactly what i think. I am confused about diamonds dmt 1200 all should be in same size right? if they worn then they should be gone size shouldn't be change?
i wanted to know is anyone else having same issues?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zib

Do you mean that the DMT Extra Fine is "breaking in"?
The DMT hones are a bit harsh as first, after a few uses, they mellow out somewhat. Unless, I'm misunderstanding.....

---

To use dmt for straight razor we need to break in dmt's first . or they are really tough for straight razor.
what i mean i have done on both on 1200 and 8000 same work. i just have used 1200 way a lot then 8000

I think they do get smoother, My 400 is way more aggressive than my old 120.

I think the diamonds cleave, not only leave. So after so much use they are not as sharp nor as large.

This is the main reason I don't like diamond plates for sharpening. When using 1000 5k 8k, I want to know that it will be the same today and tomorrow

Yes, I understand. I have the entire set. I've been using them for some time now, mine are broken in quite well. They are wonderful for knife sharpening. I use the DMT D8XX and D8C primarily for lapping hones. The other, I rarely use on straight razors anymore, even though they are broken in because I feel that their are better choices. IMHO...
They work very well when your trying to quickly reset a bevel....Rich

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kevint

I think they do get smoother, My 400 is way more aggressive than my old 120.

I think the diamonds cleave, not only leave. So after so much use they are not as sharp nor as large.

This is the main reason I don't like diamond plates for sharpening. When using 1000 5k 8k, I want to know that it will be the same today and tomorrow

---

I agree. As I said, I feel their are better choices out there. they're great for hone lapping...

Have you tried looking at the surfaces of the plates under the microscope, Sham? It might be useful to see if the two look similar, and also if there is a big difference between the center or the 1200 and the lesser used parts of the plate like the corners.

When I first started using my 1200 for setting bevels I found it micro chipped some blades. On those I went to the Shapton 1k. Others were alright. Than , as I posted in another thread, I used the 1200 to lap some hones. I noticed the telltale gray/black residue on my Norton 4k so I was taking some of the 1200 with it.

After that I stopped lapping hones with it and continued using it as a bevel setter. It still works good with that and no micro chipping so apparently lapping broke it in just right. That is the way it seems to me anyhow. I have a DMT 8000 that I only have used on really tough steels such as S30V , ATS 34 and the TI Damascus. I haven't used it enough to compare it to the 1200 but I will take a look at both under the 30x and report back when I get home from work.

Got home and took a look under the 30x stereoscope. The 8000 is little used and is still shiny. The 1200 is well used and has some bits ripped out of the diamond and nickel plating. No doubt from the lapping. Still works as a bevel setter so I caught it in time. I checked my 325 and it looks fine and I have lapped many hones with it. Always under running water so I guess that helps. Sorry I can't help you with the difference between yours Sham.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kevint

I think they do get smoother, My 400 is way more aggressive than my old 120.

---

this is what i am noticing and thought a lot more people will have similar issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kevint

I think they do get smoother, My 400 is way more aggressive than my old 120.

I think the diamonds cleave, not only leave. So after so much use they are not as sharp nor as large.

This is the main reason I don't like diamond plates for sharpening. When using 1000 5k 8k, I want to know that it will be the same today and tomorrow

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RayG

Have you tried looking at the surfaces of the plates under the microscope, Sham? It might be useful to see if the two look similar, and also if there is a big difference between the center or the 1200 and the lesser used parts of the plate like the corners.

---

Ray i haven't check them under them microscope but i have used 1200 so much i know it doesn't act same as early . now a lot slower and i have checked the bevel it gives now almost same as 8000 dmt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Got home and took a look under the 30x stereoscope. The 8000 is little used and is still shiny. The 1200 is well used and has some bits ripped out of the diamond and nickel plating. No doubt from the lapping. Still works as a bevel setter so I caught it in time. I checked my 325 and it looks fine and I have lapped many hones with it. Always under running water so I guess that helps. Sorry I can't help you with the difference between yours Sham.

---

Jimmy i just thought a lot more people will complain may be they will later on. i have at least sharpen 200 razor on 1200 and now it is in this condition. i hope this thread will help rest to decide what to buy.
i think dmt works great early on but later it doesn't keep that quality.?

I noticed something similar with my plates, I just attributed it to the increased use of my 1200 vs the 8k.

Even diamonds wear down, eventually.

I read somewhere (either on this forum or the knife forums) that the diamonds were embedded/secured to the plates with only about 1/3 of the material sticking out. Once the points of the diamonds begin to wear, they become wider and lose their aggressiveness, some fall out. I believe the DMT uses mono crystalline, which stays secured to the plates better and work more efficiently than the cheaper poly crystalline.

Even my Shapton DGLP and DRLP have worn down. I have a DGLP that is about 3 years old which I have to put about all of my weight on when lapping. I still works, but it is not like when it was new, which required absolutley no pressure.

All my DMTs have become somewhat finer with use.

The gap between my 1200 and 8k hones (several of each in different sizes) is still fairly wide; but I use them about equally. I sharpen far more knives and wood tools than razors.

I'm of the mind that using Diamonds plates/stones for sharpening at the higher levels is a bit overkill for a razor, and that "normal" stones are better suited once a bevel has been established.

Using a coarser diamond plate/stone for establishing an edge has the advantage of flatness and speed, but too coarse can cause chipping. At the higher levels, the scratches will initially be deeper than other finishing stones, and then will have too little action after the stone wears past its prime.

Using too coarse a diamond plate/stone for lapping can also be a little overkill. I wouldn't use the DMT 8XX (extra, extra coarse) on anything over 1,000 grit (in fact, on a well maintained 1K, you could effectively use the 8F (fine), which is 600 grit). Using too coarse a plate/stone on a much finer stone will wear down the diamonds (and the stone) unnecessarily fast and can leave grooves in the surface of the stone. For higher grit stones, you can use a higher grit diamond plate/stone - on a 5K stone, you could use the 8E (extra fine), which is #1,200 grit. In fact, the Shapton compact lapping plate works on this theory by using different grit powders to correspond with the different grit stones. The coarse powder is about #80 grit, the medium is about #800, and the fine is around #4K. Ironically, the much more user friendly (and expensive) DGLP is a #325/375 mesh, and the DGLP is about #600 grit on both sides. I guess it's not too cost effective to be spriknling diamond powder on a lapping plate all day long.:w

I'm rambling now.:ziplip:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jendeindustries

In fact, the Shapton compact lapping plate works on this theory by using different grit powders to correspond with the different grit stones. The coarse powder is about #80 grit, the medium is about #800, and the fine is around #4K. Ironically, the much more user friendly (and expensive) DGLP is a #325/375 mesh, and the DGLP is about #600 grit on both sides. I guess it's not too cost effective to be spriknling diamond powder on a lapping plate all day long.:w

I'm rambling now.:ziplip:

---

I assume you mean the DRLP is 600 grit on
both sides? Could the reference side be used
on straight razors for bevel setting?

- Scott

I was thinking that after a lot of use maybe the diamond bits are slowly falling out as the steel wears down over time and use????

The reference side is essentially a #600 grit diamond sharpening stone that can be used to flatten out a blade. Harrelson suggests using it in conjunction with the 1K stone for checking progress rather than as a pure sharpening stone. I've used mine plenty as a 1st step stone, and then jumped straight to the #1,500 pro.

I 'm not 100% sure about the lapping side grit. The lapping side is recommended for 1k and up, but not for the #120, #220 & #320 stones, so the grit must be greater than 320, but less than 1000. It would make business sense of the grits on both sides were the same, though.

Just to clarify, the DGLP is #325/375 and can be used on the Glass #500, but not the Glass #220. For the coarse grits, the compact plate is best.

I only have dmt 325 and 1200, so I do not know what does the 8000 do.

Tonight I had to use the 325 for about 45 minutes to hone out a 1/3 bevel wide chip. I first spent 10 minutes on the 1200 before realizing it's going to take ages, stopped on the 325 when there was just 1/20th bevel wide remaining of the chip, spent 10 more minutes on the 1200 and went back for 5 more with the 325 to get it out fully. So that's about 20 minutes of wasted honing on 325.
the scratch marks are certainly deeper than the naniwa 1000, but that doesn't tell us much since direct comparison is only meaningful between the same abrasives.

overall is's still fast hone compared to the others I have, and on many razors it sets a rather nice bevel.

before breaking it in good, it had diamonds protruding above the main surface so that caused me a bunch of pain when I was just learning.

if you can take photos of the scratch patterns with the two hones that may be useful. I'll take some with mine, and as long as we are looking at the same razor it should be good comparison. how about a double arrow?

i can take picture only in 200x and in that case magnification so much you won't see any scratches. After using it while you will see it is sharpenening speed will go way down

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sticky

All my DMTs have become somewhat finer with use.

The gap between my 1200 and 8k hones (several of each in different sizes) is still fairly wide; but I use them about equally. I sharpen far more knives and wood tools than razors.

---

Mine too, especially the 325...

This is a good one! The 1200 has diamonds in the 9 micron range. The 8000 has diamonds in the 3 micron range. The 1200 should give you a much coarser finish than the 8000. Have you looked at the finishes under magnification?

unfortunately yes .
Now i am in point of that dmt 1200 is slower and does leave similar edge to 8000.i check the bevel and you won't see scratches anymore.
before when i start to use dmt 1200 you could see clear all scratches sometimes without magnification on the blade. now with 100x you can't see anything.
i am sure people will use their dmt's more and end up in my situation then this thread will make more sense.

Quote:

---

unfortunately yes .
Now i am in point of that dmt 1200 is slower and does leave similar edge to 8000.i check the bevel and you won't see scratches anymore.
before when i start to use dmt 1200 you could see clear all scratches sometimes without magnification on the blade. now with 100x you can't see anything.
i am sure people will use their dmt's more and end up in my situation then this thread will make more sense.

---

About how long did it take for the 1200 to wear to its present state?

6 months.i use a lot for set a bevel. i bought same time dmt8000 and it is almost in new condition. i don't use it very rare i may use.aa

Referring to DMT (Dia-Sharp) diamond plates here...... I started out with the 325 to lap my Nortons and what have you. Shortly thereafter I bought the D8E 1200 to set bevels. I did find that the plate caused micro chipping on some razors but not on others. I had 'broken it in' by rubbing it down vigorously with the shank of a large Stanley screw driver. After awhile I took it to work along with a couple of Nortons and figured I would hone on my down time and the 1200 could double as a bevel setter and lapping plate.

I'm not sure how many times I lapped the 4/8 with it but I started to notice my Norton would have a gray residue left on it after I lapped it. Around that time it came out that Dia Sharp recommended lapping with the D8X or coarser. Up until then they had said the D8C was cool for waterstones but the old CYA came into play.

Anyhow, what I am doing now is lapping with anXX for an initial lapping and then going to the C. If I feel like I want to smooth it out even more I give it another pencil grid and wipe it off with the D8F 600. By then it is flat enough that the 600 isn't sufferring too much and I haven't broken the XX or the F in at all. I'll let the waterstones do that.

Meanwhile since then I don't lap with the 1200 at all. What lapping I did left it cutting but less aggressively so that it doesn't cause micro chips and it is still a fairly quick bevel setter. I'm glad to have the Shapton pro 1&2k to follow it if necessary or to use instead of it. That's enough out of me. :)

I have several 1200s that have received pretty heavy (almost daily) use over several years each; one for over 15 years. None of them cut as fine as my 8k EE's.

Was your 1200 ever used for lapping slurry stones? Will it still cut or "frost" the edge of a piece of glass? If the diamonds were never undercut, I would guess a defective unit.

i never used this one to anything else except for razor's. i killed first one and then i bought 2 more. this is second one which is i am talking about. i don't know it may be defective can't argue that but this is what i am seeing.
i tried it yesterday again to set a bevel just get tired of using it. i stop it and turned to norton 1k and job was done in less then 5 minutes.

I use the Norton 1000 also------