Thread: Some hones and stones

+1

Originally Posted by dudleythetogi

my attempt to get started

A whole new perspective on 'getting started'...

So you restore swords and have a bunch of experience doing it! Thats really cool! Have you done any work with polishing pattern welded Damascus steel? I would be interested in the tools/sequence you use to bring out the pattern in both steels.

We have a few Japanese sword fanciers here, one guy who makes Tamahagane, and a whole lot of us who are interested in natural Japanese stones so tell us a whole lot more if you will!

One last question, in the first pic, the stone on the far left, that looks like a blueish gray stone. When you lap that stone, does it lap easily and give off a fine blueish powder? If so the it may be a natural German water stone that we refer to as an Escher/Thuringen type
stone.

Welcome to the SRP!

Originally Posted by randydance062449

So you restore swords and have a bunch of experience doing it! Thats really cool! Have you done any work with polishing pattern welded Damascus steel? I would be interested in the tools/sequence you use to bring out the pattern in both steels.

Randy, no need for stones at all when working with pattern welded damascus.... Dave Martell posted a tutorial on knifeforums.com a good while back that went over pattern welded "damascus" and how to bring out the contrast between the two steels. Instead of stones, use an etching solution. Here's a link to the post.

Damascus Knives & Re-Etching - Knifeforums.com - Intelligent Discussion for the Knife Enthusiast - Powered by FusionBB

Thanks Ben, that is a very good tutorial with a lot of good tips.

I was asking because I was aware of the acid etching technique but I had also seen a web page that showed a guy using a ceramic polishing compound as one of his tools to bring out the character in the steel. In the thread you provided they used only sandpaper so I was wondering what else people used?

It was good to see that one of our guys, L R Harner, contributed some very interesting tips on doing this.

Cool. There's a few of us here who use Japanese razors. Any insight into those blades?

Originally Posted by Ben325e

Randy, no need for stones at all when working with pattern welded damascus.... Instead of stones, use an etching solution.

Ben, that leaves out the most important aspect of getting the blade ready for the etch...polishing. Before the etch the blade needs to be finished down pretty fine, otherwise the etchant will really make the coarser scratches stand out and the contrast is pretty muddy.

While the tutorial is a decent recipe, those kitchen knives do not have that dark contrasty appearance in the store shelf. They are polished again afterward. The black smut will keep showing up for a long time afterward unless it's removed. Nobody wants to see that in their food.

The ferric chloride would be pretty harsh treatment for a Japanese blade. Another very dilute acid might be used to bring out the hamon. There are a lot of ways to skin this cat.

Personally, when I want to etch a pattern welded steel like that, I simply use a 15% nitric acid to 85% distilled water solution....I let the piece soak for around 15 minutes to give the darkest transitions, and between 5 and 10 minutes for lighter variations.

Make sure that you use multiple baths in baking soda clouded water after removing it from the solution to stop the reaction and make the blade safe to touch with bare hands....then it's back to the polisher for a couple minutes and then to the sharpening stones again since the etchant will dull the blade.

that is nice hone collection. when i see them i get dizzy and jealousy wakes up in my brain tissue. they start to have conversation and some says move to euro ??? they have more rocks then we do.
Thank you for showing to us.

The polish on a Japanese sword is generally done completely with stones,the use of a chemical etchant is sometimes used on a weak hamon,Showato or modern blades.On an older or traditional blade the chemical etchant can invade the grain boundaries and cause corrosion that may not show up for a while,neutralization with another chemical is nessesary.While "Nihonto" is folded steel it is not"pattern welded",it is the same steel folded upon itself in a manner that will produce"hada"or grain.The use of certain stones(uchigumori) will release its grit when used with water and produce torjiru"juice" that will help physically etch at the grain boundaries and "whiten" the hamon.This will,because of the pressure involved during use will cause an uneveness in the surface finish that will be blended with slivers of the same stone,ground flat,have a paper backing applied(using irushi) lapped to about .015-.010'' thick,rolled over a round object and crackled into a checkerboard pattern.When used on the sword the small segments of stone adheared to the paper backing will conform to the curvature on the swords surface.There are generally two different grades of stone used in this prosess,and several ways they can be used.Ha-to,to whiten the hamon,Ji-to,used above the hamon on the Ji to help contrast and refine the hada.Afterwards, nugui-kanihada,a final polishing process is done using a variety of compounds,from the forging flakes that pop off the sword when it is made,ji-teko(lodestone)ferric oxide,or sometimes the residue from the hazuya prossess is wrinsed off the sword,dried,ground finer,and as with all the other forms of nugui,mixed with oil,pressed through filter paper onto the swords surface and rubbed into th sword surface with a cotton wad,this will,if done properly,will darken the "Ji" ,softer area of steel above the hamon,and give it a contrast,without blending out the"hada".Not being to much harder than the surface it is polishing the prossess is slow,and polishes out the grain boundaries rather than obliterate them as a harsher abrasive such as diamond paste
Greg
(this is an example of Showato and Gendaito that has been traditionaly polished)

Originally Posted by dudleythetogi

The polish on a Japanese sword is generally done completely with stones,the use of a chemical etchant is sometimes used on a weak hamon,Showato or modern blades.On an older or traditional blade the chemical etchant can invade the grain boundaries and cause corrosion that may not show up for a while,neutralization with another chemical is nessesary.While "Nihonto" is folded steel it is not"pattern welded",it is the same steel folded upon itself in a manner that will produce"hada"or grain.The use of certain stones(uchigumori) will release its grit when used with water and produce torjiru"juice" that will help physically etch at the grain boundaries and "whiten" the hamon.This will,because of the pressure involved during use will cause an uneveness in the surface finish that will be blended with slivers of the same stone,ground flat,have a paper backing applied(using irushi) lapped to about .015-.010'' thick,rolled over a round object and crackled into a checkerboard pattern.When used on the sword the small segments of stone adheared to the paper backing will conform to the curvature on the swords surface.There are generally two different grades of stone used in this prosess,and several ways they can be used.Ha-to,to whiten the hamon,Ji-to,used above the hamon on the Ji to help contrast and refine the hada.Afterwards, nugui-kanihada,a final polishing process is done using a variety of compounds,from the forging flakes that pop off the sword when it is made,ji-teko(lodestone)ferric oxide,or sometimes the residue from the hazuya prossess is wrinsed off the sword,dried,ground finer,and as with all the other forms of nugui,mixed with oil,pressed through filter paper onto the swords surface and rubbed into th sword surface with a cotton wad,this will,if done properly,will darken the "Ji" ,softer area of steel above the hamon,and give it a contrast,without blending out the"hada".Not being to much harder than the surface it is polishing the prossess is slow,and polishes out the grain boundaries rather than obliterate them as a harsher abrasive such as diamond paste
Greg
(this is an example of Showato and Gendaito that has been traditionaly polished)

I assume you use both hands shaving with that.