1K pasted MDF Strop

Well, as I mentioned in this thread, I got hold of some coarse honing powders (400, 1K, 1.5K and 3K) and I got it in my head to see how they'd do in lieu of hones. I tried the first one out today.

I started with MDF--Medium Density Fiberboard. It's more readily available here than balsa, and it's cheap and starts out flat. I started with a piece that's 30cmx10cm--pretty huge. I cut off about 3cm to make a slimmer hone, and to make a "ripe stick", as I believe KevinT called it.

I mixed the powder with some cutlery oil and brushed it on with a cheap boar brush. This didn't work too well...the "paste" was much too thick and clumped up, so after I had brushed the area enough to prime it with oil, I spread some powder on liberally with my finger.

I used less than a gram, I'd say...and I have 75g. So...yeah, I can do this a couple times.

So that was the strop. I decided to test it out on a couple of razors. I had one that I had honed a frown out of but hadn't done anything else to it. I dulled it on class (I know, I know...) and stropped. After a while, not too long...maybe 40 passes?? 50?? I didn't count...I had a nice, sticky bevel. First success!!

Then, I had this freaking Rongin razor. It has been giving me fits. This one has a fantastic bevel up to the front inch or so of the blade. I figured hey, why not? And gave it a go. About 20 minutes later...

SUCCESS!!!!! The strop worked where the hones had failed...Oh my oh my am I HAPPPYYYYY!!!!!!

The effects are interesting. Instead of a scratch pattern, they give more of a "speckled" look like a nakayama or coticule...you get a very shiny bevel even off of 1K.

Tomorrow is the 3K, and when my Diamond pastes get here, we'll see how far we can take this madness!!!

Here's the strop after the above bevel work. Pretty dark...problem with swarfing, do you reckon?

ohhh. perhaps you mean; meant kennyG?

Kiri, paulownia is nearly basla. If you want soft wood, I would guess available there.

Congrats on your success

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevint

ohhh. perhaps you mean; meant kennyG?

Kiri, paulownia is nearly basla. If you want soft wood, I would guess available there.

Congrats on your success

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Oh, yeah...actually I was just confused by your successful light jazz career. :o Sorry about that.


Ahhhh, yeah...paulownia. That's what they make the razor boxes out of, isn't it? I forgot about that. Thanks for the suggestion!

Yeah Jim!!! Since Chris was too busy to try the diamond strop you won by default. YOU BUY BEER:) It is very interesting that you were able to get formerly "challenged" razors and have success. You never know what you are going to get until you try. So what do you call this contraption?
I think the coolest thing about it is that you did it with a grit that low.
Mike

Jim,
Are you going to shave test it as is?? If the bevel look like you just came off a coti maybe it will feel like it too. Give it a shave for goodness sake before you start the next grit. Maybe the grit is breaking down and by the time you finish it is a huge change. You are going to implode if you don't slow down:) Now go shave!!!! Hurry!!
M

Way to go, Jim. So I understand correctly: You backhoned the entire time? Stropping motion with spine leading and edge trailing? I assume that's what you did. If so, that's great. Very cool.

Oh, and I don't think you have to worry about swarf having a negative effect and if it does eventually, you'll know it. You could always re-scrub the MDF with oil and reapply the abrasive or, chuck the MDF and just make a new hone.




Chris L

Sorry mates, I've been a bit busy with other things, haven't got the 3K up and running yet.

Chris, I was stropping all the way except on the stubborn razor, where I tried some circles. It quickly wore some of the powder off, though, so I stopped.

Michael, You know, I might just try that...though I'm sure the grit isn't breaking down. According to Naniwa, GC is almost as hard as diamond, so probably not much chance of it breaking down against steel and MDF.

As far as the name, I was thinking..."Gabor"? Or perhaps Morton Gilchrist...

Jim when you apply your diamond paste, try mixing with a few drops of water and apply with a fine brush. I used a 1/2 inch synthetic artist brush. The water dries in a few minutes and you are good to go. The fine brush gives an even application.

I used a bead of about 3/8 of an inch from the syringe to cover a 3 inch X 12 strop. Use enough water to make a liquid about the consistency milk, adding a drop at a time and mixing with the brush. Mine are much thinner than is in your photos.

I also made one from MDF with good results. I used Diamond power for the course grit.

I also recently made a paddle from thin foam glued over balsa. Applied .25 diamond paste as above with great results. This has the draw of leather and can be cleaned off with WD40 and re applied.

I’d like to try some of these powders.

Marty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by M Martinez

Jim when you apply your diamond paste, try mixing with a few drops of water and apply with a fine brush. I used a 1/2 inch synthetic artist brush. The water dries in a few minutes and you are good to go. The fine brush gives an even application.

I used a bead of about 3/8 of an inch from the syringe to cover a 3 inch X 12 strop. Use enough water to make a liquid about the consistency milk, adding a drop at a time and mixing with the brush. Mine are much thinner than is in your photos.

I also made one from MDF with good results. I used Diamond power for the course grit.

I also recently made a paddle from thin foam glued over balsa. Applied .25 diamond paste as above with great results. This has the draw of leather and can be cleaned off with WD40 and re applied.

I’d like to try some of these powders.

Marty

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That's excellent...I've just got in my diamond paste and was going to ask about application. The paste in the photo is me mixing oil with some powder--winging it, as it were. But that's good advice...I'll try it tonight!

Thanks Marty!

Gentlemen...I'll have to give it more time. I'm afraid to say what I want to say, for fear of the ensuing poostorm, but I will try to encapsulate my feelings about my first 99% pure pasted strop honed razor in a short, pithy phrase.

HO. LEE. KU. RAP.

Stay tuned.

Well...color me interested.

I'm also interested in how this will turn out. So much of me wants to say "I knew it!!". Is this going to change the face of honing as we know it?

I can't wait until/IF my diamond pastes get here!

Chris L

OK folks, here's the story.

Last night, I took the Rongin razor I've been fighting with--the one I wasn't able to get a bevel on, the one that TAUNTED me with its dullness...and I took it to the pasted strops.

Now, the thing is, the bevel had not been set solely on the 1K pasted strop; it was part of the process, but most of the work came off a diamond plate. So that's the big caveat on this one.

So, I gave the edge a few strokes on the 1K to keen it up a touch more, then 25 strokes on the 3K.

When I went to test the keenness, the TPT wsa good, kind of sticky (I'm not very good with this one yet) and so I went to the arm hair test. As the blade approached my skin, it just started THROWING hairs. 25 strokes on the 3K and hairs were popping like crazy. I was flabbergasted...Not at all expecting that. So I goofed around with that a while, a big silly grin on my face, and then got myself back together. I gave the blade 5 more laps and tested again, a bit smoother at popping hairs, so I moved up to the 1m diamond paste. I had been worried about the size of this jump--3k is roughly 4m, and 1m is a touch finer than 8K--I want a 2m or 6k to go in the middle, but oh well. I gave it 15 passes on the 1m diamond, and the hairs were falling like bras at a Tom Jones concert.

So I moved up to the .5 diamond, and it got even smoother. Finished on .25 then, kind of thoughtlessly, .5 CrOx.

The shave?

FAN FREAKING TASTIC. This is leaps and bounds the best edge I've honed (which isn't saying much) but it is very near to the best edge I've shaved with, including some from professionals and experienced honers. It's not flawless--the toe isn't perfect, which is a matter of my skill rather than the strops, and it could stand a TOUCH more keenness (I could feel the hairs cut--not a true "velvet squeegee") but I have absolutely no hesitation saying this is a shave ready edge. And from 1k to .25m took no more than 8 minutes.

BUT. I didn't set the bevel on the 1K.

SO that's what I did tonight. IN fact, I had an edge with some pitting and microchipping, so I dropped down to 400GC.

The 400 powder is perhaps not optimal for a pasted strop. It's so coarse, it rolls around a lot and gets really messy--I'll work on this one. However, after a very long time, I got past the chips. I moved up to the 1k.

The bevel proved a challenge again, as this blade is slightly smiling and I am just not good at that yet. The toe and heel took some extra work, but eventually--they got there. I set the bevel on the 1K pasted strop, spine leading only.

I moved up the progression just like I did with the Rongin, and now I have a razor just sitting there waiting to shave me. I'm going to shave in about 20 minutes, but I have only a little doubt (that darned smile...). The arm hairs were jumping out of the way on this one, too.

I did some things wrong with this, I know. I should have been more careful with my pastes--I think I got a little cross-contamination. I should have used s straight edge. I should have taken more pictures. I should have used more uniform wood.

But the problems with the edges are all MY problems--lack of skill, lack of experience with steel--rather than the strops.

But it works. And for me, it works REALLY REALLY well. I can't wait to get better at it...

I would like to see end results after couple of shaves. i am sure pastes give sharpest edge but problem is with smoothness and keeping the edge. Jim Please shave couple of times and see how edge acts. I don't know too much about pastes except chro2.
I remember in one razor i had problem to make final edge it was just braking down i ended up using diamond past.It happen in the meeting which didn't have too much time to work on the blade.

1 more i think it will better if you use balsa.it is cheap and you wont loose your past after using ones.
Thank you

Now I want to try this too!
My most recent blade is from a super-duper crazy hard steel. Somthing like 63 Rockwell if I remember correctly, that is also insanely abrasion resistant. Apparently, when it needs a touch up, it is going to be a BEAR accoring to the maker. I'll need some diamond hones, I thought. But this might work, too.

All i want is one simple method that works with everything and is easy and fast. Oh, and inexpensive. Is that too much to ask? (I know, it is).

I've gotten pretty good with carbon steels. Most of my old blades and damascus, too...the BBW, Coticule, 12K, CrOx progression gives me the edge I like.

Hard steels, though...I'm still not so good at, and I ahve a feeling this might be a fun thing to try. Any way of getting slightly less of that powder?

Then I've got to read that tutorial on making balsa strops...

Gentlemen, as I feared the smile defeated me on that 2nd razor. The heel and toe just weren't keen enough. I'll have to go back and "tune in" the bevel, I think. BUT....the center was right there. So it's a partial success!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

I would like to see end results after couple of shaves. i am sure pastes give sharpest edge but problem is with smoothness and keeping the edge. Jim Please shave couple of times and see how edge acts. I don't know too much about pastes except chro2.
I remember in one razor i had problem to make final edge it was just braking down i ended up using diamond past.It happen in the meeting which didn't have too much time to work on the blade.

1 more i think it will better if you use balsa.it is cheap and you wont loose your past after using ones.
Thank you

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Sham, I'll send you this blade after one more shave (making three) so you can check it. It's not perfect, but I think it's pretty good. I shaved again with it tonight and it felt the same--very good.

I'm using Medium Density Fiberwood--it's like super-fine particle board, and it's working pretty good. I'm not losing the paste after one use, and it's staying pretty stable. Balsa just isn't that common around here.


Smokelaw, if you're just touching up, I think diamond paste is probably a good bet. I thought that was a pretty common thing, actually...diamond paste touch ups, I mean.

I got my diamond paste from Open_Razor on Ebay--a great vendor, and a member here I believe. It was like $20 shipped for 1m, .5m and .25m, and there's enough to paste at least 50 strops with each.

The low grit stuff is perhaps harder to come by...but you probably won't need it, right?

Hi Jim,
Thanks for taking the time to detail your methods for us to think about. much of what we learn comes from what we think about as well as good skills. This certainly gave me plenty to think about. It makes me wonder if you are getting a rounder bevel for starters. How does that affect the actual shave. sometime the smallest things in my mind like a double bevel seem to create a small change in the way I for one handle the blade angle while shaving, cause in my mind there is less relief angle. This means that I have to pick the blade a little more to catch the sweet spot to get the closest shave.
Many claim and I do too that hitting pasted strops at the end of honing smooth out things. I imagine you have taken that to the extreme which makes the whole concept very educational.
Mike

OK gents, so I have now honed three razors from nothing up to s "shave ready" edge, and I am getting a better sense of these hones.

Right now, this is what I think...
The good:
When fresh, they cut fast and SMOOTH. The edges from the 1K and 3K on an even, undamaged bevel, are really good. I would be tempted to try shaving off a 3K edge.

The bad:
The lower grit, the 400, is no good for repairs. The grit rolls around, gets messy, and cuts unevenly--it gets caught in chips, rather than hone them out.

The 1k swarfs up FAST, and it is no good when it swarfs up. I had to recharge it with powder for each razor.

So while it was a fun experiment, I'm not sure I'll use them on all my razors. The diamond pastes are good...very good...but the 1K still loses out to my diamond plate. The 3K...hmmm...I'll keep playing with that one.