Taping the spine is ok or not?

i have seen couple questions and thread on this . i don't know why i started this but i will tell what i think.
When i started to hone i learned hone the blade without tape. later on after 2 years a lot questions and answer i did change my mind and move to tape the back of the blade.
what it was doing it. saving the back and you don't have hone wear on the blade. etc.
i really never feel sharpness differences between taped or not taped blade.
But recently i think i have change my mind again.
I choose to go Lynn's way.
Not to tape except if it is really price blade go head and taped.
My reason is i think there is differences when you hone taped and not taped blade movement on the hones different. .
does it makes any differences on sharpness of the blade i have no clue . i would like to know your opinions . Welcome

I started out tapping the spine, and continued to do so because as my inventory of razors went up, I decided I would forget which ones I had tapped and which ones I had not tapped. So I just had to make a decision, and tapping won. :shrug:

The upside is that the spines do not get wear. :)

Steve

Depending on the blade. If it's a fancy spine, go ahead and tape. Fancy as in Damascus, Customs, even the Dovo Bismarcks, with the gold etching, I tape them too....

The concerns are that if you tape the spine it won't wear. If that's the case, as the edge is honed, over time the geometry between the spine & the edge is altered, leading to a more obtuse angle.
By leaving the spine untaped the wear at the spine & edge is identical & the angle remains the same no matter how much you hone the blade. Theoretically, if you took an 8/8 razor & honed it 'till it was only 3/8, the angle would remain identical.
That said, I always tape the spine. I simply prefer my blades to be devoid of hone wear! I guess you have to weigh up the advantages & disadvantages of each & make your choice.

This is a timely post for me Sham. When I first came around you may remember that I posted a thread with a poll,"Do you tape the spine?" This generated as much heat as it did light. I ended up deciding to tape all of my spines because I was buying so many ebay razors that it would be a hassle to remember which were taped and which were not.

So it is close to two years since then and a lot of razors have been honed. It always bothered me that Lynn choose to hone without tape except in special circumstances. I felt that even though I was getting good results I was doing something that would eventually prove wrong for the geometry of the blade.

In the past couple of months I have started honing without tape. Exceptions are for Damascus or decorated spines or spines with significant wear. The latter being very few as I usually won't bother with a razor in that condition.

Anyway, I have come to the conclusion that I prefer honing without the tape. There is a totally different feel on the hones and I think it is 'better' for the razor. That is the plus side. On the minus side it creates way more swarf and I have to lap the Naniwas more often to clean them. Not with a pencil grid or anything like that.... just to clean the swarf.

I am glad that I taped during my early stages of honing. I undoubtedly did way more strokes on many of them than I would do now. At this stage of the game I will tape to remove chips and get a bevel corrected. Once it is ready I will remove the tape and hone au natural. I would recommend that new honers use tape until they feel confident in their ability and then choose to hone with or without it. Good topic Sham.

One thing to consider if taping becomes the norm for you is to change it at the first sign of wear. Tape wears way quicker than steel, especially on lower grits. Not changing the tape especially in the end game of honing make most of your work pretty much useless as little if any polishing is done on the very edge where it is desired. I obviosly have a bias toward placing one layer of tape at the end of honing to max out the effect of my finishing stone. The same effect could be accomplished without it by experienced hands but this works for me right now all of the time.

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Originally Posted by Kingfish

One thing to consider if taping becomes the norm for you is to change it at the first sign of wear. Tape wears way quicker than steel, especially on lower grits. Not changing the tape especially in the end game of honing make most of your work pretty much useless as little if any polishing is done on the very edge where it is desired. I obviosly have a bias toward placing one layer of tape at the end of honing to max out the effect of my finishing stone. The same effect could be accomplished without it by experienced hands but this works for me right now all of the time.

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A while back I was on the phone with Utopian and he brought this up. He actually uses different color tapes to avoid confusion on whether he has changed the tape or not from grit to grit. I have read guys say that they get tape residue on their hones and I rarely experience that. Maybe I'm not using as much pressure ?

Anyhow when using tape I might change after setting a bevel or if I observe much wear on the tape... and I do check... but I haven't found it necessary for me once the bevel setting is complete. Obviously on a case by case basis but I'm talking overall. YMMV.

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Originally Posted by ben.mid

The concerns are that if you tape the spine it won't wear. If that's the case, as the edge is honed, over time the geometry between the spine & the edge is altered, leading to a more obtuse angle.
By leaving the spine untaped the wear at the spine & edge is identical & the angle remains the same no matter how much you hone the blade. Theoretically, if you took an 8/8 razor & honed it 'till it was only 3/8, the angle would remain identical.
That said, I always tape the spine. I simply prefer my blades to be devoid of hone wear! I guess you have to weigh up the advantages & disadvantages of each & make your choice.

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True but if done properly the razor has to go to stones for bevel setting once a year or so? This means that the geometry will change after many many years. One more thing , the angle of the edge changes only marginally with tape.

I don't tape, except in the above stated circumstances of a fancy spine. I also might tape to avoid eating into a blade etching or if a razor is extremely dull and will take forever to hone. I also taped (a toothpick onto) a microtome because the flat side was truely flat from the spine to the edge.

I don't tape for many reasons: normal for me is non-taped and it makes things easier to remember, hone wear doesn't bother me, I don't usually set bevels and take razors all the way to shave ready in one sitting (so I'd have to put on and take off and put on and take off tape to avoid rust - yes, I've had a spine rust under tape before I knew to take it off), and I hate the way it feels on a hone when the spine is taped (and the residue that gets left on some hones).

As far as the geometry question - I don't think it's relevant for me. Once a razor is shave ready, I can't imagine how many touchups it would take to noticibly decrease the size of a blade. I also don't shave frequently with any one razor (I hardly use my own because I'm always trying to find new ones to add to my rotation... which I hardly actually use), so touchups are few and far between (I've never actually had to touch one up, except when I got my new Asagi).

I'm actually curious if anyone has used and re-honed any single razor to the extent that it has noticably decreased in width (excluding say, dinging the edge or damaging it in some other way). Maybe I'll make a poll about that... Would that go under honing or razors?

I'm not aware of any damage when taping. But here is my dilemma. Once you really know how to hone and you stop damaging the spine with the stone, what is the purpose for using tape?

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I'm not aware of any damage when taping. But here is my dilemma. Once you really know how to hone and you stop damaging the spine with the stone, what is the purpose for using tape?

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Any situation in which you don't want hone wear - gold wash, worked back, damascus, maybe a restored razor that is mirrored, maybe to maintain uniform patina on a vintage blade (I had one that was all totally blackened and I taped that so it was a black blade with a very shiny bevel - looked cool imo).

I dunno if this has any merit, I haven't noticed it, but something Sham told me a while back makes me think....
I didn't really care about "swarfed" stones til I asked Sham his opinion and he let me know it was bad because we can't control how it swarfs, so part of the stone will be more swarfed than the rest, and so you get an uneven cut over the stone. I like this theory and while I'm not very experienced or can even feel the difference it makes sense.
Because tape is plastic-y maybe when you hone it onto the stone (inevitably) it has a similar effect if you're not careful?

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I'm not aware of any damage when taping. But here is my dilemma. Once you really know how to hone and you stop damaging the spine with the stone, what is the purpose for using tape?

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+1 exactly. OTOH, if I were honing for other people (for money or not) I would probably ask whether they preferred tape on not.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

As far as the geometry question - I don't think it's relevant for me. Once a razor is shave ready, I can't imagine how many touchups it would take to noticibly decrease the size of a blade. I also don't shave frequently with any one razor (I hardly use my own because I'm always trying to find new ones to add to my rotation... which I hardly actually use), so touchups are few and far between (I've never actually had to touch one up, except when I got my new Asagi).

I'm actually curious if anyone has used and re-honed any single razor to the extent that it has noticably decreased in width (excluding say, dinging the edge or damaging it in some other way). Maybe I'll make a poll about that... Would that go under honing or razors?

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Excellent point, for those of us that hone and use multiple razors .... and know how to hone .... chances of causing appreciable wear are slim and none. OTOH, for a shaver with one or maybe two razors it might be a different story. :shrug: Dylan,the poll is a good idea.

I hate tape. I see no value to it except under two circumstances. 1-like others have said to protect fancy or intricate patterns or Gold Washing on the spine 2-I find with my Zowada Razors if I don't use tape the edge is extremely prone to microchipping through ordinary use.

It really is one or the other. When learning I think tape is of spectacular use. When wisened it does neither harm nor good except it can be at the master's whim. I understand why many have never given it a second thought after dismissing it. When you wish a quick touch up in the den it can be a let down to realize you must tape. Tape spoils the purist's pursuit. But it has uses just as does monofiliment over silk line for fishing.....