New member checking in and a ?

I thought I would introduce myself hear as this is where I will be spending most of my time. I am a active member of a knife forum and have been collecting and sharpening for a long time, I like talking about knives and especially about sharpening but the sharpening topics are usually basic and there are not many members that have the advanced knowledge to understand the the finer side :)

My obsession for the sharpest edge has led me to diamond hones and diamond compounds on high quality leather strops. I recently sold all my other stones including a lapped spyderco UF ceramic (kinda kicking myself for that one) and decided to put all my efforts into the diamond hones. I sharpen a lot of high wear resistant steels so ceramics and water stones were not doing me much good and the results I am getting from my DMT EEF were good enough for me to consider it a finishing stone.

Though the DMT EEF does a great job I'm starting to wonder if other finishing stone would be worth my time. I gave up on the water stones (king brand) because they were just not effect enough on the steels I sharpen and even a 8000 grit stone was not yielding the polish expected. The ceramics I liked but they seemed to cause excessive burring and probably some burnishing effects that I'm not real fond of.

So I guess my question is should I be satisfied with what I have now or will other stones or methods bring me to a higher level. My level of polish and sharpness is good but I like the mirror look, diamonds get close but not perfect. I'm also thinking of getting into straight razor shaving and don't know if I'll need a finer stone?

Examples of the results I am achieving now.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...Picture445.jpg

DMT EEF on above knife looking edge down
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...013/PIC046.jpg

CPM-M4 sharpened with EEF and 1 micron diamond compound
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...Picture687.jpg

Welcome, but I doubt many people here will want to talk about knives, that's what those other forums are for.

Buy a straight razor for a truly sharp edge.

cheers
D:gwh::beer2:

King's aren't particularly high quality stones - they work but there's better quality stuff out there. Even the EEF isn't a "high grit" hone by my standards (I'm sure others will say the same).

Most of the knowlede in here will likely be razor-steel and razor honing techniques, so I'm not sure how much help we'll be for knives.

Welcome to SRP. If you do follow through and get into straight razor shaving and honing you will find that for someone who loves honing and stones it is a deep well to draw from. Honing razors requires different hones and is not the same as honing knives but IME it is a challenge and offers great satisfaction.

Shaving with straights once learned is so superior to every other method I've tried that I can't promote it with enough enthusiasm. So give it a shot and I think you'll be pleased with what you'll find.

Here is the beginner's guide in the SRP Wiki. There is also a honing section in the Wiki where various rocks and honing methods are discussed. :gl:

Not looking for any help with knives just the edges and the topics here are just more on my level of experience. I figured with my sharpening ability getting a straight razor and keeping it sharp would not be a problem but I am beginning to think I will need something finer. I have had other thin knives sharp enough to do this YouTube - Razor Sharp but will the coarser nature of the diamond hones produce a rough shave?

Looking for opinions of a high quality stone that won't cost me a arm and a leg (<$100). I guess I should also mention I use 3, 1, 0.5, and 0.25 diamond compounds but most of the time stop at 1. I was thinking a 10k waterstone but I know very little about waterstones and don't want to make another bad buy.

There is alot of great stones out there that are better for knives than the DMT line.
Chosera, Super Stone, Japanese natural stones.
Kings are very low level for knife sharpening, I find them pretty slow at higher grits, and pretty easy to dish at lower grits. the only King I actually like is the 8k polishing stone.
As far as razors go , totally different than sharpening knives. The only common denominator is sharp edge.
If you really want to talk knives and sharpening try the knife forums

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Welcome to SRP. If you do follow through and get into straight razor shaving and honing you will find that for someone who loves honing and stones it is a deep well to draw from. Honing razors requires different hones and is not the same as honing knives but IME it is a challenge and offers great satisfaction.

Shaving with straights once learned is so superior to every other method I've tried that I can't promote it with enough enthusiasm. So give it a shot and I think you'll be pleased with what you'll find.

Here is the beginner's guide in the SRP Wiki. There is also a honing section in the Wiki where various rocks and honing methods are discussed. :gl:

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Its one of the other reasons I joined here, I have coarse facial hair but some what sensitive skin and always end up with razor burn with even the best of store bought razors. I've heard many times that a good shave from a straight razor can't be beat so I want to start covering some of the bases now before I jump in and do it wrong.

Thanks for the Wiki link I'll have to read that when I get some time.

I have a number of the DMT 8x3 continuous plates. I use the XX and the DMTC 325 for lapping, the 600 for knives and removing serious chipping from old Sheffield wedges on the rare occasion the need arises.

I've used the 1200 for setting bevels on razors with good results but I now prefer the Naniwa superstone 1k for all but the toughest jobs. I have the DMT 8000 and I've used it with some success on ATS-34 and S-30V razors. Also on some tougher Damascus razors. Some are tougher than others. For bang for the buck I think a Norton 4/8 is hard to beat. It is a sure enough razor hone and may be gentler on HC blades than the DMT 8000.

If you want a hone that would get your razor polished above the DMT 8000 you might look at Naniwas superstone in the 10 or 12k range. A friend of mine who uses the 1200 and 8000 diamond plates on his razors tells me he gets good results with the Spyderco Ultra Fine. Might do well for you on the knives too.

I routinely use the DMT 1200 E and EE 8k 3u all the time. After them? Finer Barber hone, Shapton 16k, Naniwa 12k, or Spyderco UF (finely lapped) will all do great. 1 micron diamond paste is popular. Try hitting the 0.25 diamond paste followed by some 0.5 green Chrome Oxide sometime... You can take a straight razor up to "Feather sharp" if you are so inclined. They make 0.3 and 0.1 micron stuff too.

The Spyderco UF, when finely lapped, can be absolutely wicked. It's a bit on the slow side, but nice if you have a bit of patience. I was going to get rid of mine, too. I'm glad I didn't.

So sure, once into straights, I believe you will love it. I am still a knife nut. And the finer honing grits can make a real difference to knife and razor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sticky

I routinely use the DMT 1200 E and EE 8k 3u all the time. After them? Finer Barber hone, Shapton 16k, Naniwa 12k, or Spyderco UF (finely lapped) will all do great. 1 micron diamond paste is popular. Try hitting the 0.25 diamond paste followed by some 0.5 green Chrome Oxide sometime... You can take a straight razor up to "Feather sharp" if you are so inclined. They make 0.3 and 0.1 micron stuff too.

The Spyderco UF, when finely lapped, can be absolutely wicked. It's a bit on the slow side, but nice if you have a bit of patience. I was going to get rid of mine, too. I'm glad I didn't.

So sure, once into straights, I believe you will love it. I am still a knife nut. And the finer honing grits can make a real difference to knife and razor.

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Yeah still kicking myself for getting rid of the UF ceramic (it was lapped by spyderco) it would yield perfect mirror finishes but the edges always seemed too smooth and I don't know why. Though going back to the UF ceramic would be the easy thing to do I feel that their must be better options. I like waterstones for the traditional feel now I just need to find the right one.

Any links to places that have a wide selection of waterstones?

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Originally Posted by knifenut1013

Yeah still kicking myself for getting rid of the UF ceramic (it was lapped by spyderco) it would yield perfect mirror finishes but the edges always seemed too smooth and I don't know why. Though going back to the UF ceramic would be the easy thing to do I feel that their must be better options. I like waterstones for the traditional feel now I just need to find the right one.

Any links to places that have a wide selection of waterstones?

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Not sure if you mean synthetic or natural so here a few:
Sharpening Stones
Japan Tool
STONE

There are also coticules,and eschers and other natural stones, others can chime in about sources or those stones.

Wow :eek: I don't think I'll be buying a natural stone anytime soon. $1k-4k and I thought my SET of DMT's was expensive. Thanks for the links though, the Naniwa 12k is starting to look good I just don't know if it would be too much of a jump from the EEF.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knifenut1013

Wow :eek: I don't think I'll be buying a natural stone anytime soon. $1k-4k and I thought my SET of DMT's was expensive. Thanks for the links though, the Naniwa 12k is starting to look good I just don't know if it would be too much of a jump from the EEF.

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I am not sure I use 10 K super stone, that gives mirror on knife edges. As far as razors 10k is probably the minimum level of polishing , many people go all the way up to 30-40k on stones, then CrO or diamond spray etc.

10k is probably all I need, I have diamond compound for the rest of it, up to 100k :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knifenut1013

10k is probably all I need, I have diamond compound for the rest of it, up to 100k :)

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At first welcome
Now Problem starts.
KNives are different then straight razor. Lets see how long will you agree with your above statement.
i am sure won't last longer.
Just remember if you need help or have a questions ask.
Have fun in SRP.

To confirm part of your initial post:

You can get a great shaving edge if you use the DMT plates and finish with diamond paste on leather bench or hanging strop. Lots of folks do that and get reportedly great results.

After you finish on your pastes, try stropping on some heavily inked newspaper to smooth the edge out and take some of the diamond "bite" off the edge.


You can shave your whole life doing the above with no problem... or you can get absorbed by the artificial or natural waterstone acquisition disorder that most of us here seem to suffer from.

Welcome to the forum.

Good luck with being satisfied with only one option after your EE. One of the amazing things you will find out about some of the HAD afflicted members here is how many sharpening systems they have become familiar with and have mastered chasing edges to razor sharp. Welcome!
Mike

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Originally Posted by joke1176

To confirm part of your initial post:

You can get a great shaving edge if you use the DMT plates and finish with diamond paste on leather bench or hanging strop. Lots of folks do that and get reportedly great results.

After you finish on your pastes, try stropping on some heavily inked newspaper to smooth the edge out and take some of the diamond "bite" off the edge.


You can shave your whole life doing the above with no problem... or you can get absorbed by the artificial or natural waterstone acquisition disorder that most of us here seem to suffer from.

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I already suffer from it but got on the right med's and was able to get rid of the excess :)

I was a confused nub for a minute with this "HAD" that I kept seeing, I looked it up :rofl2:

I will probably switch from leather to hard wood or MDF with my compounds, I tried it a little bit ago with one of my knives and its making me re-think the use of leather all together. I might not need any stones after all ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knifenut1013

I already suffer from it but got on the right med's and was able to get rid of the excess :)

I was a confused nub for a minute with this "HAD" that I kept seeing, I looked it up :rofl2:

I will probably switch from leather to hard wood or MDF with my compounds, I tried it a little bit ago with one of my knives and its making me re-think the use of leather all together. I might not need any stones after all ;)

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Go to a hobby store that caters to model airplane guys and get a 1/8 x 3 x 36" length of aircraft balsa for $1.92 and cut it into 8" lengths. Glue it to a base ... I used 1/2" plexi .... and put diamond paste on it. Really works well for a scary sharp edge if that is your preference and cheap as hell. I got the plexi from a local plastics place for a buck apiece cut to fit. You don't need to flatten the balsa and when it loads up toss it and do another. I use 3.0, 0.5, 1.0 and 0.25.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knifenut1013

I thought I would introduce myself hear as this is where I will be spending most of my time. I am a active member of a knife forum and have been collecting and sharpening for a long time, I like talking about knives and especially about sharpening but the sharpening topics are usually basic and there are not many members that have the advanced knowledge to understand the the finer side :)

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Welcome to SRP! I read the sharpening forum at Bladeforums and enjoy your posts there. I think you must be the king of "hair whittlers" from that site. I look forward to your contributions here.

Straight razors or a blast. Enjoy! :cool:

Dude, I did not know you had signed up :D I have a Naniwa 10K super, 20mm thick, and it works pretty well, got it for $70 off ebay. It's soft, but nothing you can't handle with your skills, and cuts with good speed (ceramic in resin).

I have seen some people post that .25 diamond gives a harsh shave, but others enjoy it. I blended my .25 with .5 CrO from the outset, so I can't comapre myself.

I was talking a little with gunmike1 about a 16k glass stone and I think I might go that way to start. At first I thought I would be able to get away with my diamond stones but after sharpening some special 52100 the other day I found out that the grain size of the steel was not being refined enough and this was leading to problems in the polishing stages.

When I first started using diamond compounds I was doing some reading on classicshaving.com and they actually suggest stopping at .5 because 0.25 can be too sharp. The coarse bite of a 0.25 finish is something I have noticed a few times and when I get a razor I will play around with it to see what is better. I also think I need to get a new hanging strop, I have a very old uni-flex that has seen better days. I fixed it up a bit and use 0.5 diamond spray on it now but would like a plain one for final finishing of a razor, unless the concensses is that a mounted strop works equally as well.

P.S. Good to see you guys here too.

The guys have tried to point this out, but here is the real difference between every other type of sharpening, and honing a straight razor...

It really is pretty simple, look in the mirror, you are going to take 3 inches of the sharpest steel you have ever seen, and run that across your face...
You really might want to listen to what they are telling you, because everything you have learned or think you know about sharpening just changed...

Welcome to SRP where sharp has to actually feel smooth too...

Trust my friend I'm not your average knife sharpener, nearly 20 years experience and I have knives that will rival the sharpest razor you have seen. I on average have edges that will pass a HHT 3 or 4 ;)Not being a smart a$$ just stating fact.Sharpening steel is sharpening steel, you create 2 angles to a sharp apex with abrasive materials. The level of finish is everything though as it determines the effectiveness of the edge cutting a object.

Yep I figured as much, I should have seen it coming....

How utterly dumb of me thinking that you were here to learn about sharpening razors...

I already looked at your posts, which is exactly why I said what I said...

I refuse to discuss sharpening staright razors with someone that has no clue what they are talking about.. Please limit your advice on this forum until you have learned about honing straight razors....

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Originally Posted by knifenut1013

Trust my friend I'm not your average knife sharpener, nearly 20 years experience and I have knives that will rival the sharpest razor you have seen. I on average have edges that will pass a HHT 3 or 4 ;)Not being a smart a$$ just stating fact.Sharpening steel is sharpening steel, you create 2 angles to a sharp apex with abrasive materials. The level of finish is everything though as it determines the effectiveness of the edge cutting a object.

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I've got a chipped Frederick Reynolds that needs some honing if you want to take a final examination. :rofl2: That's like saying that driving a motorcycle has to be easier than a car since it has half the wheels. You can't compare sharpening knives with razors...they're different.

Whoops bad Glen forgot to close this thread down...
Hey it was late that night :)

No sense in continuing this...