Sharpness of the edge?

I used to thought when you sharpen the blade the sharpest edge should be straight line. looks like this
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i have tried Many stones and check the edge 100x to see what is going on with the edge while i progress from 1k to endless.
Always this was the case. AT the end edge was straight line.
Recently i have gotten strange stone.
Edge doesn't come out from this stone as a straight line.
It comes out saw tooth.
in 100x i can see clear it is not straight edge. it is straight saw tooth.
Now i took Blade to shave test 3 times 3 different blades and they will shave as fine as my Jnats or escher used edge only 1 differences i could notice.
it is Cutting nose is different. it seems like winter time you walk on the snow.
Any ideas?

I want to see this! I have a couple of razors that are as smooth as ice and yet they make the "crunching snow" noise you have mentioned. Time to investigate.

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Any ideas?

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Said it before and I'll say it again .... when I stopped looking at edges with 100x and started using 30x my honing got way better. :roflmao

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Said it before and I'll say it again .... when I stopped looking at edges with 100x and started using 30x my honing got way better. :roflmao

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Hows the shaves?! ;)

Someone has to ask --- how does it taste?

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Hows the shaves?! ;)

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shave is same no differences smooth without pulling etc just noise is different.
I am sure i can show MO guys on 7 th.
I do remember Turkey oils stone was acting similar.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Said it before and I'll say it again .... when I stopped looking at edges with 100x and started using 30x my honing got way better. :roflmao

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LOL!!!:rofl2: That is too good!

Does the razor still "crunch snow" when you hone it on a different finishing stone?

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Originally Posted by joke1176

Does the razor still "crunch snow" when you hone it on a different finishing stone?

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Joe no it is hones perfect . Only differences from regular finish is
1 edge is not straight line. it is saw tooth
2. while you shave it makes different sound.

This is not honing issue this is differences on hones.
why i asked this question is sharpest edge we usually get when the edge forms straight line.
Saw tooth usually we get in low grit stones 1k-3k level.
Now by theory we shouldn't have saw tooth in 20 -30k level .?
This edge acts like 20k-30k level but has saw tooth.
i hope i am clear.
This has nothing to do with honing the blade.

Can you rig a camera up to your 100x viewpiece? I'm curious to see the polished sawteeth

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Can you rig a camera up to your 100x viewpiece? I'm curious to see the polished sawteeth

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I don't have camera 100x but i do have 200x and it just shows straight line too much magnification on 200x.
i have visitors(srp members) on 7th july.
i will make couple blades shave ready on that hone and let them shave . they can use microscope 100x and see the edge too.
Polished sawteeth that is why i got interested on it too. it shouldn't be looks like this.

Recently i have gotten strange stone.
Edge doesn't come out from this stone as a straight line.
It comes out saw tooth.

What kind of stone is it? :)

it is Japanese stone.

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

shave is same no differences smooth without pulling etc just noise is different.
I am sure i can show MO guys on 7 th.
I do remember Turkey oils stone was acting similar.

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Totally off topic.... but is there another small get together next week?

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Originally Posted by Wfaist

Totally off topic.... but is there another small get together next week?

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yes in fact it is small one. if anyone wants to come welcome. just send pm i let you know the address

I want to see too. Jnats do seem to have many variables that can come into play. Are you lapping with the 325 DMT to get slurry? Is this your stone or are you testing for someone...???? You know I have HAD thanks to you and Kelly in search of the perfect edge. :) I do love it so.
Tchau!

dmt 325 is fine for slurry. it is my stone you would be able to test it too. just have a little more free time and vodka lol

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

dmt 325 is fine for slurry. it is my stone you would be able to test it too. just have a little more free time and vodka lol

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I hear that too many drops of vodka will make the line curve a little bit. :w

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

I used to thought when you sharpen the blade the sharpest edge should be straight line. looks like this
--------------------------------
i have tried Many stones and check the edge 100x to see what is going on with the edge while i progress from 1k to endless.
Always this was the case. AT the end edge was straight line.
Recently i have gotten strange stone.
Edge doesn't come out from this stone as a straight line.
It comes out saw tooth.
in 100x i can see clear it is not straight edge. it is straight saw tooth.
Now i took Blade to shave test 3 times 3 different blades and they will shave as fine as my Jnats or escher used edge only 1 differences i could notice.
it is Cutting nose is different. it seems like winter time you walk on the snow.
Any ideas?

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The only thing I can add is that you sold me a razor that was finely honed and since then I have been getting better shaves, even when I use a different razor. Keep up the good work!

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I hear that too many drops of vodka will make the line curve a little bit. :w

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I agree Jimmy with you on this but there is a differences between curve and sawteeth lines lol

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Originally Posted by MODINE

You know I have HAD thanks to you and Kelly in search of the perfect edge. :) I do love it so.
Tchau!

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Mike take my Name out of this . It is Only Kelly my friend . He did same to me too.heheh

Interesting Sham. After you hone for a while on that new hone put the hone on the microscope and see if you find any metal particles larger than the honing swarf.

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Originally Posted by Joed

Interesting Sham. After you hone for a while on that new hone put the hone on the microscope and see if you find any metal particles larger than the honing swarf.

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never thought about it. will try thank you Joed

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Said it before and I'll say it again .... when I stopped looking at edges with 100x and started using 30x my honing got way better. :roflmao

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Jimmy
I agree with you about the lower magnification. I have a 100X - 250X bench scope, a 60X USB unit for my laptop and several loupes.

The one that is most convenient for me while honing is a combination 20X - 40X illuminated loupe that I got from widgetsupply.com. Decent price too. You can definitely see a wire edge and any of those little feathers that peel off the edge while honing with the 40X.

Here is a photo of two of my loupes.............

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Originally Posted by mrsell63

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Jimmy
I agree with you about the lower magnification. I have a 100X - 250X bench scope, a 60X USB unit for my laptop and several loupes.

The one that is most convenient for me while honing is a combination 20X - 40X illuminated loupe that I got from widgetsupply.com. Decent price too. You can definitely see a wire edge and any of those little feathers that peel off the edge while honing with the 40X.

Here is a photo of two of my loupes.............

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Very cool loupes Jerry. I have the 30x non illuminated. That 20x/40x with illumination looks really interesting.

Jimmy

Buy the 20x - 40x. You will be glad you did. widgetsupply.com

I don't know where you live but widget is in Oregon.

I just checked. The 20x - 40x illuminated is on sale for $7.97

They really work. Every member should have one.

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Originally Posted by CaliforniaCajun

The only thing I can add is that you sold me a razor that was finely honed and since then I have been getting better shaves, even when I use a different razor. Keep up the good work!

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It's so sharp, the razors stored NEXT to it shave better. Sham, you are the MAN! :beer2:


Seriously though: as alluded to earlier, I would guess it's some kind of quartz matrix-type stone with a slurry. Probably with enough crystalline size variability to give you the saw-edge look??

As to the sound(I will just pull an idea out of my arse here): Since the edge is serrated in appearance, the leading edge of the blade hit the hairs first, deforms slightly, then the "valley" finishes the cut.

The leading edge, since deformed, springs back into place with a micron sized *ping* like you get when you pluck a full hollow razor. This produces the crunching sound you refer to, when it happens across the edge (as hundreds of hairs are removed simultaneously) during the shave.

How's THAT for wild conjecture. Booyah!

Uhmmm if the razor, shave well i think you have found a stone working in a different way than we are used to, with the stone working more for abrasion than for mechanical abrasion, just to explain myself because i'm not so good in english, i think the stone works like the finishing stones for katana outlining the structure of steel ( hamon ), rather than simply polishing it

I've have a Narutaki stone that work in the same way, at first glance i think it was not so good, because the edge have the sawtooth pattern after the polishing phase, but the shave after sharpening the razor was absolutely fantastic, i would say among the best i ever had

So i think you have found a jewel stone, that's my strange conjecture

Regards
Luca

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Originally Posted by Joed

Interesting Sham. After you hone for a while on that new hone put the hone on the microscope and see if you find any metal particles larger than the honing swarf.

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Joe . You thinking larger carbides breaking off the edge ? I was wondering if it was the steel or the hone but some J-Nats will leave a more corrugated & sometimes scratchy finish. E.g. Okudo Asagi (1st pic) will look different to Nakayama Asagi (2nd pic)

i have tested couple more razor 's on this hone. will do a little more and then i can say my final thoughts .
didn't have enough time recently to play with it.
So far i think it is stone not the blades.

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Mike take my Name out of this . It is Only Kelly my friend . He did same to me too.heheh

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Excuse me!?:rofl2: I dont think so... nice try Sham!

Sham,
I have too noticed a very uniform saw tooth pattern when using Jnat stones. I use to work very hard to get perfect straight edges, but I have changed my mind recently. I think the mixture and shape of grit in the Jnats do this and make those tiny teeth very sharp like sharks teeth. Very good shaves with this edge for me.
Mike

I sure agree on the loupes. I got one of the 30X and a 40x for little of nothing cost wise. I've used them over a year now and find them very handy. A microscope is a bit to expensive for my blood.

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Originally Posted by Kingfish

Sham,
I have too noticed a very uniform saw tooth pattern when using Jnat stones. I use to work very hard to get perfect straight edges, but I have changed my mind recently. I think the mixture and shape of grit in the Jnats do this and make those tiny teeth very sharp like sharks teeth. Very good shaves with this edge for me.
Mike

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This is exactly was my experience. Shaving is fine but it does have teeth.
Makes noise too while you shave.
thank you for sharing your experience.