Wavy Edge

I'm having some problems honing my 6 month old Dovo Special.

Background: The magic marker test showed that there was a 1 cm wide spot in the middle of the blade that was a 1/4 mm deep frown. So I honed it on a 800 grit waterstone until it was gone (approx 2000 stokes). Also, one of the inner stabilizers and the adjacent section of the spine were holding up the heel, so I dremeled the stabilizer a tiny bit to adjust the thick part of it's curvature, and honed the razor using a 45 degree stoke on the 800K stone until the offending spine area was flattened (this only took about 800 strokes). It now lays nice and flat on both sides.

Issue: One inch on the back side of the toe requires me to use a rolling X to get it sharp. I tried the 45 degree paintbrush stoke (my preference), a 45 degree X stoke, and a straight X stroke, but it didn't seem to make any difference. Even with lots of rolling X stokes, the bevel on that side of the toe is only about 1/4 mm tall, but is about 1 mm tall on the toe of the etched side of the blade. The magic marker test reveals that about 1/2 cm of the heel on the same side also doesn't get touched unless I use a rolling X stroke. I checked the edge against a straight edge. There is a very tiny smile with about 3/16 of a mm of rise at the toe and about 1/8 of a mm at the heel. Does that tiny amount of smile usually require a rolling X ?

If I breadknife the edge until flat, and reset the bevel, will I be able to use a 45 degree paintbrush stoke for honing from then on - or do these minor variations in spine straightness and grind thickness along the edge come back after a few sharpenings ?

Also, this is my first straight. Are most razors staight and flat enough that a 45 degree paintbrush stoke will yield even bevels, or do most have the small amount of warpage etc I'm finding on my Special ?

ps: I lap my stones every 15 minutes using wetdry paper on plate glass & lapping the pencil grid off twice each time, so I'm sure they are flat.

Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnG10

Also, this is my first straight. Are most razors staight and flat enough that a 45 degree paintbrush stoke will yield even bevels, or do most have the small amount of warpage etc I'm finding on my Special ?

ps: I lap my stones every 15 minutes using wetdry paper on plate glass & lapping the pencil grid off twice each time, so I'm sure they are flat.

Thanks.

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No most are not absolutely straight. Some are, maybe more often than not, but not all. This is why the rolling x was developed by our fore fathers. If a bevel is even and symmetric from side to side that is nice but it won't always be that way.

I try to get the edge shave ready with the least amount of wear to the spine as possible. I use the marker test that determines the stroke that will work and use that stroke. If you have a lot of razors make a note of what worked so the next time you go to that one you won't have to remember what worked.

It the bevel is not symmetric and even from one end to the other or one side to the other I don't worry about it. As long as it gets sharp and shaves smooth that is what I am looking for. YMMV. Whatever you do , don't breadknife it.

AFAIC, you're lapping your stones much too often. :)

Thanks. It's shaving great. Smooth, doesn't miss any hairs, no irritation, and almost as close of a shave as a mach 3 with just 1 pass. I now wonder how much of an effect the slight smile has on performance...

Getting the right amount a heel & toe lift while doing the rolling X, and flattening it out to do the middle is tricky though, so I was hoping to avoid it... I tried the edge of the hone (1.25" wide), but that wasn't narrow enough to hit the edge of the slight smile like the rolling X did.

ps: If I need to use the rolling X to hone, should I also try to roll the heel & toes up while stropping ? (I currently only have a 6000 "fine" stone, and finish using about triple the normal amount of strokes on a pasted strop (I have both bench and hanging versions).

If it is shaving great that is all that matters. Here is a PDF of a 1961 barber manual excerpt on honing and stropping. Great stuff and you'll note that a slightly smiling blade is a good thing according to them..... and to me too. As far as the stropping, whatever is working ought to be good to continue IMO.

I re-read the honing strokes section of the Wiki & the 1961 barbers manual. The Wiki says the 45 degree X stroke and the swooping stroke will hone a slight smile just fine. The barbers manual says that a little extra pressure at the toe & heel will hone a slight smile just fine.

I only have a very slight smile (only visible against a straight edge), but can't get the magic marker off the edge without the using the rolling X (lifting the heel & toe during the stoke, but keeping the edge & spine in contact at all times). Could I be doing something wrong on the X, 45 degree X, or swooping strokes ?

For the rolling stoke, I find it fiddly to coordinate the amount I raise the heel & toe during the stroke so that it takes the magic marker off all the way to the edge - while keeping a constant pressure so that the minute blade flexure doesn't cause different bevel angles at different points along the edge. (At least that's what I assume causes the multiple bevel angles, since the edge and spine are always in contact witht he stone throughout the stroke). Does coordinating the rolling stroke become "easy" after a few honing sessions ?

Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnG10

I re-read the honing strokes section of the Wiki & the 1961 barbers manual. The Wiki says the 45 degree X stroke and the swooping stroke will hone a slight smile just fine. The barbers manual says that a little extra pressure at the toe & heel will hone a slight smile just fine.

I only have a very slight smile (only visible against a straight edge), but can't get the magic marker off the edge without the using the rolling X (lifting the heel & toe during the stoke, but keeping the edge & spine in contact at all times). Could I be doing something wrong on the X, 45 degree X, or swooping strokes ?

For the rolling stoke, I find it fiddly to coordinate the amount I raise the heel & toe during the stroke so that it takes the magic marker off all the way to the edge - while keeping a constant pressure so that the minute blade flexure doesn't cause different bevel angles at different points along the edge. (At least that's what I assume causes the multiple bevel angles, since the edge and spine are always in contact witht he stone throughout the stroke). Does coordinating the rolling stroke become "easy" after a few honing sessions ?

Thanks.

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IME the 45 degree stroke will work with some and not with others. Some I use a combination of a modified roll with the 45 degree stroke. The rolling x will become easier with practice. The bottom line is, if the marker isn't being removed with the stroke you're using you aren't making the contact with the edge that is necessary to hone the razor successfully. These tutorials are general applications but each razor is unique and may require a different application.