What's your edge refreshing routine?

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12-20-2010, 11:31 AM
Kees

What's your edge refreshing routine?

After using a freshly honed razor approx. 10 times I feel the edge no longer gives me smooth, comfortable shaves. Time to refresh the edge.

My routine used to be: 10-20 laps on the Escher or vintage Thuringian followed by 50 laps on the Nakayama. After the Nakayama I give a razor for extra smoothness 30 laps on chrom. oxide pasted strop. Many members disagree with chrom. oxide after a Nakayama, that has been covered elsewhere.

The other day I decided to skip the Escher. I didn't like the resulting edge. So my hypothesis is that the Nakayama alone is too fine to get the edge back to the condition it was in the last time I honed it.

So do you have the experience that a too fine finishing hone alone is not enough to get the edge where you want it?
12-20-2010, 11:46 AM
DwarvenChef

I do something similar, but with Jnats, I use my Ohira tomae for 10 to 20 laps and than the N. Asagi. 60 leather and I seem to be in the zone. But I find that some of my blades prefer the coticule and Cro2, My SRP TI is one of them, it really didn't like the few tries on the N. Asagi...
12-20-2010, 11:53 AM
Stubear

I guess it depends on how far the edge has deteriorated before you touch it up. If the edge is just starting to pull then I might go to 8k, then a finisher (usually my J-Nat) and then strop. If its really bad then I might drop down to 3/4k and go from there.

Its better to start out with a higher grit and then drop down if you have to rather than starting out at 4k every time, as you'll save metal that way. You can always take more steel off if you need to but you cant put it back on! :)
12-20-2010, 01:00 PM
MODINE

It depends on the razor steel. I refresh on a vintage YG Escher. Maybe 12 to 24 light passes. Then 7 to 12 passes with water only. Sometimes I then follow up with a vintage brown Escher with oil only, 7 to 12 light passes. I do not use my Japanese natural stones for refreshing. For edge retention I may strop on a Chromium oxide treated strop or the Hess Hair Milk Satin magic strop. This is what works for me…I’m spoiled.

Mike:)
12-20-2010, 01:29 PM
JimmyHAD

I have to echo what others have said , it depends. Most times I will also go to an Escher with 5 to 10 and see where I'm at after a good stropping. I recently drank the kool aid and acquired a Nakayama and have done exactly what you described Kees. Escher first followed by the Nakayama.

One friend who has a lot of experience recommends doing it the other way round with the j-nat first followed by the Escher. I've got to try that. Sometimes I go to a vintage barber hone .... is there any other kind ? :) A Swaty or an iteapeech are favorites if using one of those. If I get satisfactory results from any of the above I will probably leave well enough alone.

If not I will redo the honing from 1k on up and sometimes I do that one way or the other. I've not had the Nakayama Asagi for very long but so far I'm impressed with it.
12-20-2010, 01:45 PM
Bruce

Interestinger and interestinger

I find myself with the seeming chronic infection of fiddling with things and did a final finish hone on one razor that has been somewhat problematic for my being able to find it a satisfying edge. Not having any of the new rave Japanese marvel stones, I tried my hand with a black hard Arkansas hone - novaculite, razor stone, you know. It worked and resulted in a nice smooth shave this morning. There are a few others in the touch up mug and I'll give them a few licks on the ol' black hard and see if my success was imaginary, fleeting, or real.

This calls for a bit of a celebratory wassail, hmmm?

:beer2:
12-20-2010, 02:20 PM
Fbones24

I agree that the Nakayama alone might not be enough to bring the edge back. My Hart Steel needed "refreshing" so I gave it about 50 laps on honzan slurry diluted and then went to just water until the stone was just damp. Shaved and did not notice a big difference in the edge.

Prior to my next shave with the Hart, I first gave it 50 laps on Koma Nagura, followed by the same as above. There was a HUGE difference and the Hart shaved much better than it had before. Smooooth!
12-20-2010, 02:49 PM
JohnG10

Refresh

Every 7-10 shaves: 10 light strokes (ie: thumb on the tang, but not it's full weight), followed by 10 no pressure strokes (ie: my hand cradles, but doesn't grasp the tang) on my Naniwa 12K. Then 40 strokes on the SRD webbing, followed by 60 strokes on the SRD Latigo, followed by 20 no pressure strokes on the SRD Latigo.

Every 30-40 shaves I do 10-15 light strokes, followed by 10 no pressure strokes on the 8K Naniwa - and then do the routine above.

If I screw up the edge when I'm stropping (ie: I feel it bite into the webbing or leather a tiny bit - even though I don't see any nicks), or I lift the spine a tiny bit doing the no pressure strokes on the 8K, then I go back to the 5K and do 15-20 light strokes, followed by 10 no pressure strokes before going to the 8K and 12K.

I've been experimenting with putting lather on the 12K for the final 10 stokes. It seems to add a little extra smoothness.
12-20-2010, 03:49 PM
Stubear

So you finally cracked a bought a J-Nat Jimmy? I knew you couldnt resist..! :D

How do you find it compares to an Escher?

Birnando and I recently lent each other some stones. I got his Y/G Escher and he got my J-Nat, and I must say I dont find theres a huge difference between the J-Nat and the Escher. When used with slurry both stones give a wonderfully silky smooth edge with the escher having just a little more bite to it than the J-Nat.

Of all the finishers I've tried so far, the Escher and Maruichi are my favourites.
12-21-2010, 09:16 AM
PhatMan

Kees,

As a general rule, after seven (7) shaves the razor gets ten (10) laps on a CrOx paddle. After ca twenty-eight (28) shaves it gets twenty (20) laps on a 10 or 12k Naniwa.

The above may be modified depending on circumstance - e.g. if the razor is not refreshed by the above or the steel is particularly hard or soft.

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ
12-21-2010, 11:15 AM
mark77

Every 5 to 10 shaves, really? I have a Dovo with the turtle shell scales and I've used it probably 40 times now and haven't done anything but daily stropping. Am I missing out?
12-21-2010, 11:56 AM
Kees

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark77

Every 5 to 10 shaves, really? I have a Dovo with the turtle shell scales and I've used it probably 40 times now and haven't done anything but daily stropping. Am I missing out?

It depends. After about 10 shaves I feel the edge is no longer as keen as I like it so that's time for me to refesh. That does not mean I can no longer shave with the razor.

It all depends on what you want from a shave. Do you use pasted strops?
12-21-2010, 02:15 PM
golfnshaver

I'm a newbie and my first razor is a new Dovo Best Quality that came shave ready. I now have approaching 20 shaves on the blade and noticed that the quality of the edge had tapered off a bit even with my passes on the canvas and leather strops. It still produced a very good shave but felt like it was maybe only 80% the sharpness I remember when first starting.

Undoubtedly, some of this initial wear was the result of being a newbie and just learning to strop, shave, etc.

I knew 20 shaves shouldn't require a hone so instead I whipped out some Thiers-Issard razor strop paste. A friend of mine has a workshop full of all sorts of goodies, including lots of leather scrap. He gave me a section of leather that I cut into a 1ft strip slightly wider than my razor. I attached the leather to my counter top and then applied the paste. I gave the blade about 20 passes across the pasted leather, washed off the paste residue and then my normal 20 on the canvas strop and 50 on the leather strop.

A quick shave test showed that sure enough this brought the blade right back up to where I remember it when it arrived as 'shave ready.'

One of my other hobbies is cooking and as such I have a set of hones and tools for keeping my knives sharp and in order. Consequently, I'm keen to break out my new Norton for the straight razor and have a go at honing a different blade... but I'm being patient and know it will still be some time before that's likely necessary :)
12-21-2010, 02:24 PM
zib

I usually do the Escher followed by the J nat too, (Nakayama Asagi) ( I can't believe Jimmy broke down and bought one, Now I know what he did with his Escher sale money...Ha...)

This is getting wierd. I have no set routine, the blade determines when it needs to be honed. Some blades seem to hold up better than others...As a matter of fact, One of my Escher's stays out on the counter by the razors all the time, I too have tried pastes after the J nat, I feel it smooths out the Keeness a bit, usually Crox, just 10 lapps...
12-21-2010, 02:41 PM
ScottGoodman

I find this quite interesting. I strop 10x on .5 micron pasted strop & usually 40-50x on leather every time I pick up a razor in my rotation. I VERY seldom have to touch-up/re-freshen a blade. Every time I clean up a razor after a shave I strop on crox pasted webbing 10x followed by leather.
12-21-2010, 03:14 PM
pinklather

Official communication from HAD certification board

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I recently drank the kool aid and acquired a Nakayama and have done exactly what you described Kees. Escher first followed by the Nakayama.

Official communication from HAD certification board:

We are please to announce your membership has been restored in good standing!

'Grats on the Nak. What did you get? Where from? 'Very much looking forward to hearing your thoughts from playing with it.

Stuart - your description of the escher vs asagi answered a question for me - wondered if smooth could be had from an Escher, or just keen. 'Can't afford multiple finishers, but am LOVING the asagi from Yamashita-san. Before trying an asagi edge, I think I'd never had 'smooth' in the vocabulary. 'Hard to imaging doing w/out it now. The methods I've been pleased with so far haven't tested well on TPT or HHT, but the shaves are so good I could care less.
12-21-2010, 09:34 PM
Sticky

I'm also in the "it depends" camp.

Usually, 2 to 5 laps on a barbers' hone does fine. On the really harder steels, maybe 10 or more (I don't use pastes).
12-22-2010, 02:40 AM
Ryan82

When I feel a blade's sharpness has tapered off a bit I'll go to my chrome ox balsa strop and do 10 laps. I don't count shaves in between paste touchups, but I will generally do this 3 times (or until I notice that 10 laps of chrome isn't doing much anymore).

At this stage I will either go to my coticule or Nani 12k. If it's a coticule touchup I'll do 50-100 laps, water only. For the Naniwa it's usually 15-20 laps. After hitting the hones I find chrome ox is mostly optional, sometimes I do for additional smoothness, sometimes I don't. I guess I don't really need to. Then its 40 linen 60 leather and shave time. It's not really a test shave as this routine will bring my edge right back to where it should be.

I very rarely feel that I have to drop down from a finishing hone (ie down to an 8k) for touchups as I find it unnecessary.
12-22-2010, 05:31 AM
shayne

you guys are at a totally different level then me and I don't have all those different choices in stones actually all I have is a barbers hone with two different sides , isnt this enough to perhaps get the edge back into working order I know its not nirvana but ....
12-22-2010, 06:14 AM
gary haywood

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfnshaver

I'm a newbie and my first razor is a new Dovo Best Quality that came shave ready. I now have approaching 20 shaves on the blade and noticed that the quality of the edge had tapered off a bit even with my passes on the canvas and leather strops. It still produced a very good shave but felt like it was maybe only 80% the sharpness I remember when first starting.

Undoubtedly, some of this initial wear was the result of being a newbie and just learning to strop, shave, etc.

I knew 20 shaves shouldn't require a hone so instead I whipped out some Thiers-Issard razor strop paste. A friend of mine has a workshop full of all sorts of goodies, including lots of leather scrap. He gave me a section of leather that I cut into a 1ft strip slightly wider than my razor. I attached the leather to my counter top and then applied the paste. I gave the blade about 20 passes across the pasted leather, washed off the paste residue and then my normal 20 on the canvas strop and 50 on the leather strop.

A quick shave test showed that sure enough this brought the blade right back up to where I remember it when it arrived as 'shave ready.'

One of my other hobbies is cooking and as such I have a set of hones and tools for keeping my knives sharp and in order. Consequently, I'm keen to break out my new Norton for the straight razor and have a go at honing a different blade... but I'm being patient and know it will still be some time before that's likely necessary :)

ti rasoir paste is exallant stuff for touch ups.i use coticule with water mainly . this works with 30 to 100 laps depending. if not i'd raize a minute slurry and do 30 laps and then finish on water , this gives a little boost. both would work ti paste or coticule , i tend to prefer to use stones, but the paste is realy handy if i need it.

best thing to do would be to touch up just before you need it, keep on top of things
12-22-2010, 07:27 AM
onimaru55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees

The other day I decided to skip the Escher. I didn't like the resulting edge. So my hypothesis is that the Nakayama alone is too fine to get the edge back to the condition it was in the last time I honed it.

So do you have the experience that a too fine finishing hone alone is not enough to get the edge where you want it?

Not so much that the stone is too fine as the stone may be a gentle cutter.
There are ultra fine Asagi that cuts very fast. Often but not always they will have orange tones in them (yake) that are reminiscent of a sunset on the sky blue Asagi.
Making a slurry with a diamond plate will mix the yake particles into it giving strong cutting power.
Some of the faster ones can remove 4k & even 2k scratches.

Oh ! & Congrats to Jimmy . Are the pics up yet ? :p :)
12-22-2010, 07:40 AM
Kees

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayne

you guys are at a totally different level then me and I don't have all those different choices in stones actually all I have is a barbers hone with two different sides , isnt this enough to perhaps get the edge back into working order I know its not nirvana but ....

Of course it is! However: sharpness is addictive. Not so long ago all I had was a coticule and a strop.
12-22-2010, 07:47 AM
Deckard

Quote:

Originally Posted by gary haywood

ti rasoir paste is exallant stuff for touch ups.i use coticule with water mainly . this works with 30 to 100 laps depending. if not i'd raize a minute slurry and do 30 laps and then finish on water , this gives a little boost. both would work ti paste or coticule , i tend to prefer to use stones, but the paste is realy handy if i need it.

best thing to do would be to touch up just before you need it, keep on top of things

I am follow this advice recently and seems to be working fine.
The TI paste is surprisingly smooth, not harsh at all.
I use pasted hanging strop so wonder if the stone would have much effect after using paste in this way as surely the bevel is slightly convexed?
12-22-2010, 09:32 AM
DwarvenChef

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayne

you guys are at a totally different level then me and I don't have all those different choices in stones actually all I have is a barbers hone with two different sides , isnt this enough to perhaps get the edge back into working order I know its not nirvana but ....

If the hone works for you than you have nothing to worry about, if you hang out around many of us for to long... Well lets just say that some AD's are contagious :deal::rofl2: