A set of Foreign razors

Some razors are made in germany, some in england, some in the united states, some in france....what did I forget?

Antique Set of Seven English Cut Throat Straight Razors Trumper Mayfair London

.....and some are just "foreign" (click through the pictures and look at the tang where razors usually say the country where they're made)

:p

I do have an english friend (who hasn't lived in england in 30 years or so now) who did say that in his youth, there was english, and everything else began at dover and wasn't english.

That is so odd ........ :thinking: One for Sherlock Holmes, or Neil Miller ... :angel: What I mean is the stamping of "Foreign". They used to have "Ground In Germany" as an encouragement to buy. I've never seen "Foreign." Unless, after WWII , when there was some ill feeling toward Germany ?

Some photos for after the listing is gone ;

Attachment 169911Attachment 169912

That is different! Perhaps Trumper bought and resold German blades post-war as anti-German sentiment was prevalent?
Just 'Foreign' was stamped?

That is my thought also. I was stationed there (England) RAF Bentwaters outside of Woodridge Suffolk County 1969-1972 and anything "Bosch" was bad. They even call German Shepards, Alsatians! As far as I know, they still do.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

That is different! Perhaps Trumper bought and resold German blades post-war as anti-German sentiment was prevalent?
Just 'Foreign' was stamped?

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+1 - Noticed this when it posted and assumed that it was post WWI (The Great War) German.
Those "engine turned" top jimps look so much like several of my German razors that I assumed they were German from the top view.

I was watching those, nice set, well done.

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Originally Posted by DaveW

I do have an english friend (who hasn't lived in england in 30 years or so now) who did say that in his youth, there was english, and everything else began at dover and wasn't english.

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Well, if he has been on the other side of Dover for 30 years, I don't think you should be calling him 'English' ;)

I only lived in the UK for 4 years, and it was among what you might call the more privileged classes, but I wouldn't be that surprised if the Foreign stamp was an "us and them" thing.

However, I'm sure there are a plethora of other possibilities for the markings and I'm going to sit back and wait for someone like Neil to educate and intrigue me, as he always does. (So, no pressure or anything there Neil :D)

James.

He is....er...coming along......:popcorn:

There isn't one singular, all encompassing reply. To keep up with tariff and sales of goods acts, the country of origin was stamped on goods, butsome countries stamped goods intended for export as 'foreign' to distinguish them from the home product. After the McKinley Tariff Act of 1890 there was a flood of goods just marked as 'Foreign'. A revision to the Act saw the actual country of origin marked on goods instead of just 'Foreign'. This form lasted into the 1920s, but was still resorted to on a 'casual' basis. This meant that the Foreign mark could be used to overcome difficulties, like German export goods during WW2 and USSR goods during the cold war. This cut both ways though - western goods were often branded as Foreign to enable easier sales in Iron Curtain countries, for instance.

Some newly founded states/countries (eg Czechoslovakia) were not formed until around the early 1920s, so the Foreign mark would apply to this country as far as the Revision to the Tariff Act was concerned. Other countries changed hands regulary (on the borders of Germany - Austro-Hungary, and some (Bohemia, Moravia) were moved to make other countries (eg Czechoslovakia) so these presented a problem, too.

So far we have seen that the Foreign mark cannot be used to date goods (apart from Czechoslovakia).

Another informal use of the mark was during the term of the British Empire, were there were Empire-made goods and non-empire, aka 'Foreign' goods. Again, not so good from a dating perspective.

Yet another use was the fraudulent misdescription of imported goods, particularly where those goods were sold in the UK at the expense of the domestic product. In 1896 there was the Foreign Goods (Prevention of Fraud) Act, which mentions linen made in France and sold in the UK as Belfast Linen and flannel made in Germany sold as Welsh Flannel. The enforcement of the 'Foreign' mark then saw that an appropriate rate of import tax was levied on goods such as these, so the domestic product was playing on an even ground. Some colonial goods were already marked at this time, signifying they came from part of the Empire, rather than being made outside the colonies and thus 'Foreign'.

Another instance is the Merchandising Act of 1887. This already had any goods imported into the UK with english writing on them marked with the country of origin, such as 'Made in Germany' but a simplification of the terms of the Act simply used the word 'Foreign' so that there was no doubt.

So, there are many reasons why 'foreign' should be used (more than alluded to above) and furthermore the use of the mark cannot be used to determine the date of the article on its own.

In many ways it does boil down to an 'us and them' thing, but this holds true for every civilised trading country in the world - who wants to lose jobs, market place, morale, and history to those of an outside state? Not that such things haven't already happened, particularly in the UK which has lost its car and motorbike industry to outside forces by not levying large enough import duties, turned most of it's mining areas into ghost-towns and cold-calling telesales operations, and sold off utilities we rely on like water to third parties like France, for instance.

But that's the way of the modern world, and it has probably always been the way - money talks. Like it or not.

Regards,
Neil

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Originally Posted by gugi

Well, if he has been on the other side of Dover for 30 years, I don't think you should be calling him 'English' ;)

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Good point. He'll love that. Especially if I tell him that he's practically the same to the English as the French are now. (He's lived in the states for probably 20+ years, but did a stint in South Africa when he first left the UK).

I doubt disdain for the French probably exists there today as he seems to remember it. Calling him non-English may get a small reaction, but calling him "practically the same as a Frenchman" will definitely trigger a lot of profanity.

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Originally Posted by DaveW

Good point. He'll love that. Especially if I tell him that he's practically the same to the English as the French are now. (He's lived in the states for probably 20+ years, but did a stint in South Africa when he first left the UK).

I doubt disdain for the French probably exists there today as he seems to remember it. Calling him non-English may get a small reaction, but calling him "practically the same as a Frenchman" will definitely trigger a lot of profanity.

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Fair enough! but you are probably wrong about the 'disdain' part, though. I bet your pal also used to say 'If it doesn't swim up the Thames, I don't eat it' about fish!

Practically a generation ago, chauvinism and racism were endemic over here. Some of the older ones that are still about from that time are still like it - most look on it as a charming eccentricity now, however. I remember the 1970s, for instance, as a good time, men were men, women looked like proper women and all that, but I bet it was hateful for a lot of people.

Me - well I guess I am still a chauvinist pig, but I don't care. I'm in a minority and the European Court of Human Rights should treasure me, I'm a dying species... :)

Regards,
Neil

Definitely odd indeed, but an excellent find for sure.

AS an aside, Trumpers has been about since 1875. The postal address or code on the box the razors came in is W1. Postcode reform in the 1840s, made into law in 1858, generated postcodes with just letter, like 'W' for the west area and 'WC' for west central. This aided sorting of mail, allowing sub post offices to sort rather than one large regional sorting office.

This lasted until 1917 - during WW1 - at which point the system was further simplified by adding a number, like the 'W1' on this razor box. The system was simplified again in 1959 by using three characters, and again in 1960.

So this razor set dates from 1917 at the earliest to 1959 at the latest. Knowing what we do about the 'Foreign' mark we can rule out all but post WW1 and the duration of and post WW2 as likely ages. My money would be on sometime after WW1.

Regards,
Neil

Once again, nice work, Neil! :rock:

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I do have an english friend (who hasn't lived in england in 30 years or so now) who did say that in his youth, there was english, and everything else began at dover and wasn't english.

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Yep, and there was a time (long before the "Tunnel") when a UK newspaper posted a headline "Fog in Channel - Continent Cut Off" after ferry crossings had temporarily been suspended due to fog.


The poor chappies on the Continent must have been relieved that they didn't drift away and got lost after being cut off... :)