They're similar to what I've seen on originals but not quite right.
Attachment 178135
http://www.ebay.ca/sch/ajkenne4xm3/m...p2047675.l2562
Printable View
They're similar to what I've seen on originals but not quite right.
Attachment 178135
http://www.ebay.ca/sch/ajkenne4xm3/m...p2047675.l2562
I think the originals may be a little wider in diam.
The originals were actually stamped steel covers over the washer.
Those are close, but I agree with onimaru55.
There are a lot of variations of the originals.
These are pretty nice, though. Almost useless without the steel support washer that goes underneath, but they look good all the same.
Of course, the bullseye washers were not the most common ones, and using standard brass washers doesn't really replicate the look of old Sheffield ones. The smaller washers would be by far the more useful.
Like Zak says, without the strength of the smaller, simpler, underlying steel washer these aren't a lot of good - they simply do not have the strength to withstand peening and will buckle inwards and/or flatten.
There are some solid ones available - not period correct, but they do away with the need for the under-washer and can stand peening - not sure who the seller is/was, though.
To be fair, though, the pics in the link Hart posted show ones that look much better, by and large.
Apart from the above, these look cruder - much cruder - than those made all those years ago. Evidently they are made using a punch and shim brass sheet, but of the four shown two look mis-struck to me - not good is it, a 50% hit rate?! Even the two that look passable have ragged edges where the punch has not severed the metal cleanly and the seller has not thought to tidy them up.
Regards,
Neil
Might be a bonus if you're going for a well worn antique look. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
Why stop there? A smack with a hammer could make the horn scales look the part, and leaving the razor in the rain then cutting cardboard with the blade would make a nice period piece!Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
Hey - I could do that! Gissa job, mate...
Regards,
Neil
I've seen a lot of original Sheffield ones with bits of flash around the edges, but not so many with the mis-struck look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
One of the things I've been wondering lately is if the steel under-washer and brass bits were struck at the same time. Seems like that'd be the easiest way to make sure it all fit right. But then, smackin'em with a hammer tends to make'em fit pretty good too.
I you follow the link (40 Brass Bullseye Collars Washers FOR Repair OF OLD Sheffield Razors | eBay) there are some examples of the washers used on a couple of razors,
Attachment 178249
as well as dimensions. They show them as 0.19", when I measured some I had, they averaged 0.22" for the simple domes:
Attachment 178250
They are advertised as being rough and in need of polishing.
They also had this interesting pic:
Attachment 178251
I suspect the washers pictured are cast.
Attachment 178287
From the listing:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wullie
"40 Brass Bullseye collars or washers for repair of old Sheffield straight razors. These brass collars are made as exact replicas of the original bullseye collars made by Cutlers in the 18th and mid 19th centuries. * These collars are stamped/punched from 26 guage brass sheets and are .19 inches wide and .05 inches thich. They provide the finishing touch for the larger Wade and Butcher razors and similars Sheffield straight razors. *They come unpolished and shine up nicely as seen in the sample photos of the finished product. These collars are a must have for straight razor restoration enthusiasts. You will receive 40 bullseye collars that will look similar to the sample shown in the first photo. Does not include 1/16 in. brass pins or small retaining under washers #0 which are available at microfasteners.com. "
Not too sure about that, Zak. You would have the additional problem of stressing the brass washer and tearing it at the tight points where it met the steel one, as well as lining up everything perfectly and making sure it didn't move from washer to washer. On top of that the under washer would become progressively deformed and would have to be periodically replaced. No, seems too complicated to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidmonster
I know that in the distant past (late 1700s) these things were made with a set of tools, a punch and a die, made of hardened steel so they could withstand the rigour of bashing washers out of mild iron and copper and brass, with only the end of the tool that was hammered being of a slightly lower temper so it did not shatter when the hammer was applied.
Later on, for the less 'artistic' washers, the brass shim ('latten' as it was then called, a slightly different alloy to today) was simply laid on a thick sheet of lead, made harder than some of the soft leads we use today for flashing etc - more like the old hard automobile body solder sticks. A single punch was used in this set up.
I expect the under washer was punched from a shim steel that was just thick enough to allow it to go under the central raised boss of the brass bullseye washer. Being a firmer, harder metal than brass it would tend to deform when struck, giving it a kind of domed effect.
The doming is not at all like that given by jewellers doming and dapping sets - they are altogether of the wrong profile, only good for giving an approximation to the true shape that was used which was altogether less circular in profile, being shorter across the radius and higher at the centre than is found in any part of a circle, so unless they were purpose made with non-circular profiles I do not believe dapping sets saw much use in razor making - if they were even used at all.
There is a group of re-enactors that dress like roman centurions, etc, and who make their own armour. Parts of that armour were held together with decorative stamped bosses (rivet heads) that, although a little bigger than used in razor making, look as if the making process was the same or very similar. They make decorative 'lorica' bosses by producing a single punch worked with a decorative head, placing the tin or brass sheet over a great 'blob' of melted lead that has cooled (looks like it was melted, poured into a can about 2 inches deep, left to set, then the can was cut away - so it was self-levelling on the top face, although I expect it could be leveled more if required) and whacking the punch down with a single hammer blow. The product is very good...
Regards,
Neil
Take a look at these they seem to be of a far higher quality, there's also a German seller on Ebay who makes fantastic pins and washers I've used them and in fact his pins and washers are the best I've ever seen.
Straight razor washers | eBay
razor-handles | eBay
I have some a friend sent me & i have some flat steel washers that would work that I got from Micro Fasteners I was going to send back until my friend sent me these but I need to make the steel ones concave to back these up. I bought the stainless flats as collar washers but were way bigger than the tiny collars being sold on eBay but about the right size for these. I don't think these are the same but I could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidmonster
An advantage to the stamped washers is that with very little clean up they conform to the shape of the scale. Stainless or brass washers of #2 or #3 size and small diameter do the the job of support. I made a batch of washers similar in size and shape to the red background photo of old razors on the previous page.
Attachment 178365
~Richard
PS clean them up by spinning them, in pairs, on a mandrel for cutoff disks on a Dremel.
Those look really good Richard. Once peened they should look like the real deal!Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezer
German silver here:Quote:
Originally Posted by engine46
Attachment 178385
~Richard
JamieQuote:
Originally Posted by celticcrusader
I have bought those same washers & even though they aren't like vintage & are solid, they are good!
Steve
I have used these washers in nickel silver and they clean up really nicely after polishing. But you need to clean the edge on the bottom edge of them before putting them on. They aren't identical to the old ones but they look much better than the solid ones IMO. They aren't perfect but with a little work they look great.
