How to find good razors to practice honing?

So I have been spending way too much time on eBay recently, looking for cheap razors to learn to hone on. It seems like all I am able find are smiling, frowning, chipped, damaged, or more than what I am thinking a practice razor should cost. So, a few questions:

1. What price range should I be looking in? I have been thinking under 20 bucks, but I am not seeing much in the way of vintage steel that way.
2. How much hone wear is too much hone wear? I know to avoid badly frowning or smiling blades, but am not sure where it goes from some hone wear to too much hone wear to be worth messing with.
3. Any search tips for cheapies?

If this is in the wrong sub-forum, please move it where it needs to go. Thanks for your input!

If you haven't already look in the wiki under FAQ and there is a section on buying on the bay. It gives you two really good search options that you can copy and paste in the eBay search bar to help narrow your search. You will still have to cull through the refuse but there are some good ones. A basic search for me today brought up 3000+ results and narrowing to <$15 brought it to 1700+. Now granted majority is still not worth it's some are not even razors, but it does bring up some good narrower options to sort through.

Hope this helps,

Neil

And I just found a won a 99 cent razor with 10 dollar shipping. Thank you for pointing me to the FAQ, I think I must have skimmed past those searches.

I do well going to antique shops. As what and what not for hone wear, here's an example.
The top two are very heavy hone wear, the bottom is light to moderate.
The bottom blade would serve you well, the others letter openers. Also great for cutting rust off blades if you start restoring them.
I find them priced $20 or less.Attachment 202767

I had the same problem, but am much better at searching out good eBay blades now. One word of caution from experience: watch for warped blades. Unfortunality, you can't usually tell from the pictures, but you can tell when you lay the edge on a flat surface! The very first eBay razor I bought was warped, but my dumb self did not check until after some very frustrating honing practice time was wasted:aargh:
Have fun and happy searching!

I would not bother with trying to learn on honed out old blades with geometry issues. Keep an eye on the classifieds. There are good razors that come up often that are around the $50 mark and won't drive you crazy trying to learn on them. You will find what they save you in frustration makes them well worth buying. There is no need to make it extra complicated before you even start learning. Unless of course you are wanting to make the learning curve as long and steep as you can...

I now know three important things:

1. You have to see pictures of the blade on a flat surface, on both sides. If they arent there, ask the seller to provide them

2. The spine and the edge must follow the same curve, or if the spine is straight, the edge must be straight.

3. Watch out for thick heels and razors like the 3 pictured above, where the heel is thick and the blade narrows towards the point.

These things are important, not only for the beginner, but for anyone who doesn't want to do heavy work on restoring the geometry to follow these 3 basic principles.

With that said, I've bougtht 7 razors from ebay and only one of them was in a perfect condition. Yet, 6 of them are, or will be made shave ready, but for 2 of them I will need to do some work on the heel. Another 2 will need to corrected by proper honing and with time, their geometry will be improved. Which leaves me with 2 that are OK, one perfect, one near perfect. The last one, not surprisingly the first razor I ever bought, will likely be used as a tool of some kind.. anything but for shaving a face. What I'm trying to say is, even if you score a less than perfect razor, with time and patience you will learn how to handle the imperfections.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

I would not bother with trying to learn on honed out old blade with geometry issues... ...Unless of course you are wanting to make the learning urge as [frustrating,] long and steep as you can...

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Zakly. Getting crapped out cheap razors on ebay will not teach you much anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

I would not bother with trying to learn on honed out old blade with geometry issues. Keep an eye on the classifieds. There are good razors that come up often that are around the $50 mark and won't drive you crazy trying to learn on them. You will find what they save you in frustration makes them well worth buying. There is no need to make it extra complicated before you even start learning. Unless of course you are wanting to make the learning urge as long and steep as you can...

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This is exactly what I am trying to avoid. I know I am still a ways away from being able to hone from bevel set to finisher, but that's where I want to get. I would perfer to avoid mistakes along the way. I also seem to have a hard time waiting for things, so I am sending the last few razors I purchased off to someone for help, at least until I can learn enough to try myself.

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Originally Posted by Drygulch

...I know I am still a ways away from being able to hone from bevel set to finisher, but that's where I want to get...

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This is enviable.

FWIW, all the time I wasted with semi-spent-bent-ugly-and-maybe-salvageable razors distracted me (a typical everyday or so shaver) from developing the far more timely and essential skills of:

* shaving technique (which you will not develop with a not-sharp-enough razor);
* strop selections and stropping technique; and
* knowing how to maintain and refresh the professionally honed edge on the everyday razor(s).

I'm not saying you shouldn't get lapped, stoned and honed from here to Sunday but, from my limited experience, that's the last thing to get involved with, not the first. It's an expensive distraction the value of which you may well question a year from now. I'm not trying to pee on your cornflakes, just telling you about my point of view. Well, not just MY point of view - lotsa folks, other than boys over at Norton Abrasives, I think. :D

Thank you. I have been getting that advice, so I am slowing down trying to collect what I think I need and getting more information first. I am at either 22 or 43 shaves with a straight (depending on if you would count using a Feather AC or not.) I have a good sized collection of strops, in both paddle and barber style and vintage and new. After I rolled my first edge from stropping like I would a knife, I seem to be doing well with my stropping technique. My five current shavers have all been professionally honed, and I have three more going out soon for some work.

Just trying to use the collective experience here to gather more information, prior to gathering more stuff I might not need.

The very best way to learn to hone is to find a mentor for some one on one time. The next thing is to attend meets. If you do both you will have the very shortest learning curve. I doubt that there is another member in Canada or the US that has as high of travel costs as I do for getting to meets. However if you want to be good you should find a way. Anyone can hone, but to hone well takes good teaching, and practice, practice and then a little more practice. You don't need many razors to practice on either, you should have three. Good razors are not expensive razors.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

The very best way to learn to hone is to find a mentor for some one on one time. The next thing is to attend meets. If you do both you will have the very shortest learning curve. I doubt that there is another member in Canada or the US that has as high of travel costs as I do for getting to meets. However if you want to be good you should find a way. Anyone can hone, but to hone well takes good teaching, and practice, practice and then a little more practice. You don't need many razors to practice on either, you should have three. Good razors are not expensive razors.

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A huge +1 to all of that.

The advise already given is probably the "BEST" advice for a newbie just learning.

Me? I guess I went against the grain. That would be except for going to a mentoring session with some damn good honers in NYC. The mentoring gave me an idea of what I should be doing. But I jumped in with a bunch of junk ebay razors. But I'm a hard headed guy and don't give up easily. The guys here on SRP in the honing section are more than happy to give suggestions and techniques to overcome a problem with a blade. When I got stuck on a blade I posted up pics and asked what do I do with this? Always friendly responses from guys wanting to lend a hand to an idiot like me. Sink or swim I just jump in. Probably not the best option for most, worked for me. If you easily get discouraged, don't be me.

I have reached out to a few people who are local to me, I just need to see if I can set up some time to go see them and talk with them. I just didn't think people use thier actual shavers to learn on. If thats the case, I should have enough razors to play with while learning.

If it is not worth shaving with it is not worth trying to learn to hone with. The goal is to get a fantastic shaving edge on your shavers, what better place to start. Tape the spine to save the wear in the beginning and Robert is your mothers brother!

Oh yeah, another +1 for RezDog! Keep one, or two sharp to have something to shave with. That's how I rotate at the moment because I got some new hones, so until I learn what they can do, I am being careful.

I would go to Larry they aren't pretty but it cuts out allot of the headache on the bay just to get practice worthy blades Whipped Dog Straight Razor Shaving Equipment

What type of stones do you have to hone with? As has been said start with a good blade and learn from maintaning a sharp edge down to setting a bevel. Save the problem blades for later. Good luck.

Right now I have a Naniwa 1k, and a set of three Welsh Natural stones with slurry stones. I will be looking to pick up a Norton 4/8k, and a lapping stone to get a basic set to start with. Then I need to figure out how to use them.

I would say you are further ahead with a plate rather than the stone. The plate will stay true, the stone will not, and will need to be trued up. As for the plate a 325 is likely your best choice because, although it is not great for really rough flattening and true lapping, it works very well to clean your hone between razors and keep them flat. To grid lap them, you should use some coarse wet dry for the first time and then the 325 for the second and you should be able to maintain them that way. I am a rock hound and use a lapping plate which is quite coarse and works very fast ion the Norton, but will be overkill for you unless you develop a really bad case of HAD.

no lapping stone, use 220 sandpaper, so much cheaper, and does not require to be lapped itself:y:y before use

I'd say you're pretty much set to go with what you have. If one of those slates is a Dragon's Tongue, then I'd go from 1K straight to that. With thick slurry at first, of course... You would benefit from a few slurry stones in the "coarse" range. This means a Botan, or a Tsushima nagura. Even those aren't necessary, but they will speed up the process to get you from 1K to 5K (roughly where slurried DT should be). This will save you a pile of money.. like, a good size Tsushima nagura is $35 + shipping. Botan might be slightly more expensive, but probably no more than +$10 US.

Lapping plate is a nice little accessory, but I seem to be coping just fine without it. Would still like one though... Fiddling with sandpaper is no fun ;)

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Originally Posted by Drygulch

Right now I have a Naniwa 1k, and a set of three Welsh Natural stones with slurry stones. I will be looking to pick up a Norton 4/8k, and a lapping stone to get a basic set to start with. Then I need to figure out how to use them.

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just fold to size

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Originally Posted by Srdjan

I'd say you're pretty much set to go with what you have. If one of those slates is a Dragon's Tongue, then I'd go from 1K straight to that. With thick slurry at first, of course... You would benefit from a few slurry stones in the "coarse" range. This means a Botan, or a Tsushima nagura. Even those aren't necessary, but they will speed up the process to get you from 1K to 5K (roughly where slurried DT should be). This will save you a pile of money.. like, a good size Tsushima nagura is $35 + shipping. Botan might be slightly more expensive, but probably no more than +$10 US.

Lapping plate is a nice little accessory, but I seem to be coping just fine without it. Would still like one though... Fiddling with sandpaper is no fun ;)

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Yes Mr. Whoever, that's the way to go! :)

To the OP... This is off-topic, but perhaps worth mentioning, as you are interested in learning. Another approach, again using naguras: An Aoto-type nagura (medium hardness), grit around 2k on average and getting finer as you go, can probably get you up to 3k. Follow that with a medium-grit, moderately hard nagura (Mejiro, or even DT slurry itself) to get to 5-6-7k. [I need to note that I don't really trust the advertised grit of those slates, neverteless, they are very useful and I've been using them with a lot of success. I assume that the DT can get you to 8-9K with minimal effort, on water.]

So, there you go, at this stage you are ready for a finisher. I actually find this part to be tricky and where the steel and the stone really, either come together, or fall apart. Example: My 6/8 Bengall Sheffield, full hollow, shaves like a dream off of the Welsh slate (Yellow Lake). On the other hand, a Solingen-made EKS loves a harder stone (an unknown Jnat, very hard) and simply isn't as keen on the slate...

Another useful tool to have in the arsenal: a cheapo jeweler's loupe. Can be had for less than $5 and highly recommended for examining the scratch marks on your edges.

Hope this o/t babble didn't bother you too much... I'll shut up now.