Or how do I work out condition based on photos? What am I missing?
Printable View
Or how do I work out condition based on photos? What am I missing?
If you have to ask yourself these questions, you probably should not be shopping cut-throat razors on eBay.
This primer might shed some light on the photography issues: Straight Razor Magazine: The Straight Razor Magazine's eBay Purchasing Primer. That said, some people present their commonplace razors in fancy ways, and get away with it while fetching very high prices.
Take the Filarmonica line of razors. Bog standard Solingen issue blades, mostly ground and finished in Solingen if the locals are to be believed (And why shouldn't they? After all no one has come up with positive proof of any razor production going on in Spain so far?).
Are they any better than their contemporary Solingen brethren? I have tried a few, and they were not. The only razors able to exceed, on average, vintage Solingen razors came from Sweden (no, not Heljestrand), or Japan (no, not Kamisori type razors).
Yet people are willing to for out seemingly any amount of money, with four digit figures becoming the norm, rather than the exception. Why? Hype, greed, and lack of information would be my explanation. That, and the unkillable superstition that a certain razor will make one better at shaving. Which, in my experience, is bollocks.
So, my personal advice is to stay away from eBay. Very few people are able to get their money's worth from eBay when buying cut-throat razors.
I can't find the nice vintage Japanese or Swedish razors in an antiques shop in Australia. If I wanted to expand my razors what other options do I have. Better go in better informed than otherwise.
Ps. I cheated and got someone else to evaluate my buys beforehand. But I can't do that all the time.
There is a [Wanted] section in the classifieds :<0) I just looked and somebody cleaned it up since the last time I looked and I think it is a part of the classifieds that is under used. Shopping for razors on e-Bay is almost an art form. Not only do you have to judge the condition of the razor but the picture itself. I started with inexpensive razors and learned as I went. This may cost you more than the razor your looking for but you could always turn around and relist them. I would only do this if you plan on shopping there a lot.
Your post here may get someone to part with what your looking for and you could always ask in a PM if you see something you like.
Like the shave itself, be patient , watch, and learn !
Btw thanks for the link. Was very helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinK
It depends on what you're looking for. When I started out I wanted to learn to hone my own razors and to do it well. So I bought some pro honed razors from known honers on SRP to start with. A few. I used them to shave with, and as a benchmark to judge my own honing on ebay razors I bought. Some vintage razors attain cult status and will cost a pretty penny, while other lesser known Solingen, USA, Sheffield, Swedish, Japanese razors will cost far less.
The key is condition. I'd much rather have an unknown brand vintage razor in really nice condition than a Filarmonica, or Dubl Duck Wonderedge with uneven hone and blade wear. Early on I bought razors with frowns and I did learn how to fix that .......... don't buy it ! It doesn't have to be listed in all the razor collector books to be a great shaver. So buy a few to learn on that won't break the bank ......... unless you lean toward collecting and have disposable income. Then knock yourself out.
You are trying to apply logic to ebay... Ebay is anything but logical... my advice if you want to deal with ebay is set the mental price you want an engstrom, Dahlgren, etc at in good shape and just set that bid when you see one you like. You are bound to win one at the price you want, if not a lot less.
Rami, for some reason Aussie and NZ ended up with more than their fare share of Bengall razors. Don't know why that is, but I rank them as good as anything I have tried. They take a great edge and hold it for a long time. Most are plain jane, but they get the job done. Find a good one and you won't be disappointed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rami
"The 'Bengall. brand was sold in the far East and Australasia, so it a rare brand in Europe/America. In Oz they were a dominant force in the market." [Source]Quote:
Originally Posted by Grazor
It was also suggested that they were military issue razors, but as far as I know, this has not been confirmed.
I used to own a few (I still own a Cadman), and they can be very nice. Also, last time I checked, they were still reasonably affordable. Either way, they present a much better alternative than this Giesen & Forsthoff made razor shaped object.
I can't confirm they were military issue either, but they were certainly common enough to have been amongst personal kit of that era.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinK
It is a shame the current G&F offerings are rubbish, is Solingen on the down turn?
Haven't heard one bad thing about RA, can't help wonder why you would attempt to market something that doesn't deliver.
Surely reputation is everything for repeat sales, especially in a niche market.
It depends on how you define "down turn", I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grazor
Everyone (no exceptions) uses Herckenrath blanks.
Wacker used to have some old blanks, but as far as I have heard, he has run out of them. The razors on offer certainly look commonplace. Quality has gone up again after a massive slump a few years back. Personally, I do not like their designs, or scales, but if you like those, Wacker is a safe place from which to buy.
Revisor still have, and use, old blanks. They also employ a few retired craftsmen, which is why you stand a fair chance of getting an outstanding razor for reasonable (by eBay and fan boy standards) money. Their service certainly is top notch.
Ralf Aust is a one man operation with massive skills. I have yet to see a razor whose edge could be improved out of the box, and I have seen a few.
Then there is Dovo with its mostly machine made 5/8 razors, and the odd larger model. I do not like them for a number of reasons, the main one being shoddy QA, and often a lack of actual shave readiness out of the box. Mind you, I am talking about "needs a few swipes on Chromium oxide, or a finishing hone", not "needs a completely new bevel", but still - at the price point, I had much rather buy an Aust or a Revisor.
And then there is everything else. And I mean everything (except those elusive Cowboy and Sanssouci razors on German eBay which are made by an OAP from old blanks - horrible scales, but very nice razors): Puma, Giesen & Forsthoff, and by now, possibly, Böker. All outsourced and made by a small outfit with questionable skills. That razor from the beginning of this thread? The Chinese can do better than that, really.
As for reputation, there are a number of issues:
- We are living in a filter bubble here. This is a highly specialised forum. And horribly cluttered from an outsider's perspective. Even I sometimes have difficulty finding things in "the library", and I wrote major parts of it. So, a convoluted forum, plus bias, equals information over
- There are very few meaningful reviews. I wrote this five years ago: Reviews, or it really is personal | Cut Throat Chronicles | Fashion fades, only reality remains. Things have got a lot worse since then.
- One must not say a mean about manufacturers. Case in point: If a rank amateur tells you that "heat treatment" may be a problem with a certain Solingen razor, he's apparently out of his depth. If someone with 10k or more posts and a razor honing service on the side tells you that "judging from the pictures" the razor needs a "re-honing", he's only in it for the money. Somewhere in between, there are a few members who actually know what they are talking about. Unfortunately, under the current guidelines, they are not at liberty to tell you that a specific manufacturer produces nothing but shite. By association, they are not at liberty, either, to tell you that a specific vendor is in cahoots with said manufacturer, and therefore sells shite - with a massive markup. Personally, I believe that it would be incredibly beneficial to most users if such opinions could be voiced. But that is just my opinion.
So there. Short question, long answer. I hope it helps.
Robin
Hi Robin, it helps. For what's its worth I have two Bengals. It's just that I am a beginner and sometimes I screw up the edge so need a spare. I also like to try new thing so want to have a look over the fence and see what's the fuss all about. I am trying to avoid all the hype but not sure what to get and where to get it :).
Update. I went or called 4 different antiques stores in Sydney and not one razor. Can someone around the area advise me where to go?
I would like to put in a good word for ebay, once you know a bit about razors, Ebay is an easy place to get a deal, I recently got a W+B longtail for cheep, is in good shape all round, $27..
Just won a CJ Heljestrom MK 30 for 59.00 shipped, Ivory scales, gonna like both of them.
If one spends some time looking carefully, then dropping the over bid on razors for ones with less bidding you are best off. Best of luck to all.
Update on the Heljestrand, still has not come, don't think the seller sent it. Frustrating the crap out of me. won on the 24th of May. No tracking # is an indicator of possible BS storm to come in some cases. I'll at least get my $ back, would rather have the razor as it looked to be damn sweet in Ivory.
Well, the seller finally sent the razor 3 days ago and the jokers failed to let me know it had tracking #s.
The Razor is NOS with factory edge, a Genuine Jewel, stropped and shaved with it, for the little spent it is amazing, sometimes you can get lucky on razor prices.
Copied from a Museum of Sheffield exhibition 2010:
"The Cadman family manufactured razors in Sheffield for over 200 years. Luke Cadman registered the mark BENGALL in 1748 (see upper image overleaf). Interestingly his brother, David, registered the mark SENEGAL in 1758 . These suggest that the family wished to associate themselves with global trade. At the time the mark was registered.
Britain was trading internationally, including to Bengal for supplies of tea. The BENGALL razor mark soon became recognised internationally as a symbol of quality.
What happened to the firm?
Cadman & Sons occupied a number of addresses in Sheffield including premises in Surrey Street, Fargate, Carver Street, Broomhall Street and Monmouth Street. The firm continued into the 1900s though the safety and electric razor market was putting them under increasing financial strain. Throughout the post war period they continued a strong international trade. They exported 80-90% of their products to Australia, Japan, India and Poland. During WWII they supplied the Royal Navy with 250,000 razors.
The firm diversified into the manufacture of scissors and dissection blades after the war in an attempt to increase business. However their staff reduced in number from 100 to 30. The business eventually ceased to trade in 1965 and their last workshop was on Matilda Lane. By their closure only two workmen remained, Alfred Skeels and Jack Platts, both grinders in their 60s.
Did you know..?
The correct Sheffield name for this type of object is an open razor, though many people refer to them as cut-throat razors. In America they are known as straight razors."
They are nice shavers except for one :P. The warped one I showed you did not shave well. Tried it again that night :(.
Not sure if it's the razor or me
Welll... We don't hit the bullseye everytime when we start or even 30 years on :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rami
Lol. That's a kind way to say my technique sucks [emoji6] now to work out if it's the honing or the shaving. Maybe both.
Probably both.
From what I saw, at least you're not doing any damage . That would suck much worse :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rami
From My experience on E-Bay, any nice looking Wm. Elliot & Co. or W.H. Worley & Sons are good razors. They take an very nice edge and hold it, J. Wiss & Sons are good razors, and any Simmons Hardware Keen Kutter razor are good, all though they are mostly around 4/8ths to 9/16ths. If you can find a good 6/8th Worchester from Mass. I have found them all to be good razors. I like quarter Hollows to Hollow grind razors.