PayPal: buyer beware

Hi everyone, just wanted to share a recent experience with paypal and their so-called buyer protection.

November 2019: purchased an item using PayPal, paid roughly $45.
Dec 2019: Since the item had not arrived, I wanted to contact the seller for an update, and their store no longer existed. Cue alarm bells
Dec 2019: contacted PayPal about my concerns, they obtained a tracking number from the seller, said it was on its way.
January 2020: item still had not arrived, made claim on PayPal. While that was being processed, an item did arrive with the tracking number given by the vendor. Not only was it not the correct item, it wasn't even close and was something I would not pay $2 for in a dollar store. Utter garbage. PayPal denied my initial claim on the grounds that a tracking number had been given, so I then informed PayPal about the bait & switch scam, providing photos for evidence. Their eventual response: return the item with tracking for a full refund. The cheapest shipping option with tracking for me was $60, so obviously I refused to do that. Their response? Too bad.

I have since discovered via PayPal's facebook page that the same seller has done the same exact thing (same item paid for, same garbage shipped) to multiple people. PayPal has not only refused to issue us refunds, they have also thus far taken no action against the scamming seller.

This particular item had nothing to do with shaving gear, so I hope no one else here has been affected by this particular crook. But please be aware that if someone sells you X, but ships you Y, PayPal will do NOTHING to protect you unless you pay to ship it back with tracking even if that exceeds the value of the transaction. To me, this demonstrates that PayPal values a scammer's business more than they do mine. I had been a loyal, honest, and regular customer for years and years, but they have now lost me as a customer as I refuse to support any business that so clearly protects scammers.

So please be aware of whom you are sending $$ to via paypal. At $45 I consider this a relatively cheap lesson. It could have been much worse.

The way to beat this is to use your credit card instead of PayPal. Or maybe use your credit card in PayPal. I have found with my buyers protection my credit card company will take care of me.

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

The way to beat this is to use your credit card instead of PayPal. Or maybe use your credit card in PayPal. I have found with my buyers protection my credit card company will take care of me.

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I think you can use your credit card with PP and I have heard of someone letting their CC company reverse the payment. But that gets the money back from PP, not the seller and I have read that PP might dislike that enough to block your account. So idk what is the smart move there.

I got to disagree with you there my friend. If PayPal won’t help then we shouldn’t worry about what the cc company does to them and if they sanction you then why do business with them. They must be held accountable. Short story. Bought a phone service and then found it didn’t work out where I was working at the time. Tryed to cancel after a couple months. Breaking contracts is awful hard to do with mobile suppliers. Ended the argument told them no problem Amex would be in touch. They canceled.

That is what your buyers protection is for and if PayPal wouldn’t help me then f@#%k em. The way I am I just don’t let anyone screw me over. He paid good money, he honored his end of the deal and the seller and PayPal are wrong. You don’t need to go thru PayPal there are other ways

When I've called and EVENTUALLY got a person they have usually taken care of me before. That is rough. Have you tried calling back and trying to get someone more helpful?

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

That is what your buyers protection is for and if PayPal wouldn’t help me then f@#%k em.

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Yup, that's where I'm at right now. In this particular transaction, the payment came from my bank, not a credit card. I likely could contact the bank, etc., but frankly for $45 I've wasted enough time on this schmazel already.

Joshua: I have called a couple of times a couple of weeks ago. I got through to a person once, but that was after nearly 90mins of waiting on hold and navigating their bewilderingly unhelpful menus. Life's too short to go through that shit again! :)

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

The way to beat this is to use your credit card instead of PayPal. Or maybe use your credit card in PayPal. I have found with my buyers protection my credit card company will take care of me.

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I use my credit card for most things brought online.
I once brought some.. um.. 'exotic' DVDs online and got charged double. A quick phone call to my card company and money was back in my account 24 hrs later. :)

I don’t use PP that often for purchases unless from a trusted seller ( got burned once ) but PP made good so now I use my CC with PP and it’s worked out very well

Interesting way to get around the PP buyer protection. As said above, I also use my CC with PP because if PP won't make it right then usually the CC company will.
Amazon Visa refunded my money when a stone came to me broken because the imbecile who shipped it just placed it in a big box and it was free floating.
Bottom line, a good CC will give you much stronger protection than PP in my experience.

Is there a good reason not to out scammers like this on a public forum like this? I like to turn the tables on bad actors like this and let them know that they tried to screw the wrong person.

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Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

Is there a good reason not to out scammers like this on a public forum like this? I like to turn the tables on bad actors like this and let them know that they tried to screw the wrong person.

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None whatsoever, as far as I can tell. There is no store as that has disappeared, but this is the info as per Paypal:

Seller's name: 深圳市象蛙科技有限公司
Seller's email: tansey97122@gmail.com

BTW, that translates to: "Shenzhen Elephant Frog Technology Co., Ltd." which corresponds to the return address I was given. However, the address on that company's website is not that given for the return. So my guess is that if I had shipped it back, it would have simply vanished. And I'd be willing to bet that email address is now abandoned.

Wish that had been the name on the store I bought from as that would have warned me off long ago. :)

TC's advice was eating away at me, so I double-checked and the transaction was on my Amex, not my bank account. Quick call to Amex and they're on it. Much, much, MUCH less painful than calling the idiots at PayPal.

Thanks TC and the others who suggested the CC route.

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

TC's advice was eating away at me, so I double-checked and the transaction was on my Amex, not my bank account. Quick call to Amex and they're on it. Much, much, MUCH less painful than calling the idiots at PayPal.

Thanks TC and the others who suggested the CC route.

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I've gotten to where I use my CC card more just because I know it is safer. Thankfully I haven't had to call about something like this, but using your CC gives you more protection.

Good luck with the claim. Amex is probably the best credit card company to have on the transaction in such cases.

You should, of course, be prepared that if Amex charges paypal back, paypal may still decide to claw the money from you in other ways. It's probably a good occasion to read the Terms governing your paypal account (they're different for each country) and see what happens. And of course paypal may terminate your account - they generally have the right to not do business with you just like you have the right to not do business with them.

It's also possible that Amex will cover the $45 themselves, but I think it's large enough sum for them to do a chargeback. Once I filed a claim for something under $10 and they just paid it themselves rather than dealing with a chargeback - at certain point it may be the business smart way for them to handle it.

I certainly have learned through experience the lesson to not trust neither paypal's nor ebay's protection policies.

Let us know how it works out.

I think in this universe you get back what you put out... or at least i hope so .

This week i got scammed. I purchased a shaving soap for £35.. The guy assured me that it lathered well and he uses it all the time.
It doesn't lather at all, its main ingredient is olive oil. It is by far the most useless shaving soap on earth.

These shops have staff with fake cockney accents , i can only assume it is to cheat tourists .
In all my life i have never heard of fake accents before.

I did email the company but so far nothing and i cannot go back to the shop because i don't want to put myself in a dangerous situation :)

....or at least I hope so.

Im with ya but I still think only the good folks believe this. Its a shame the world has come to this type of ways.

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Originally Posted by JOB15

These shops have staff with fake cockney accents , i can only assume it is to cheat tourists .

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I hope they put things right for you. In the meantime, I couldn't help but think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juIvwwPlCus

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Originally Posted by gugi

You should, of course, be prepared that if Amex charges paypal back, paypal may still decide to claw the money from you in other ways. It's probably a good occasion to read the Terms governing your paypal account (they're different for each country) and see what happens. And of course paypal may terminate your account - they generally have the right to not do business with you just like you have the right to not do business with them.

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That would be hilarious, considering the last message I received from PayPal via their facebook page:

"I can definitely understand how frustrating this situation has been! Unfortunately, in order for the transaction to remain eligible for coverage under PayPal's Buyer Protection Policy, you'll need to return the merchandise to the seller within the specified timeframe. If you're unwilling to return the merchandise and paid using a bank or card, you might be able to reach out to your financial institution for any further dispute options. I regret that we’re unable to provide the answer you’re looking for in this situation, and hope you have a good day. "

I especially like how they make it appear to be my fault by saying that I'm "unwilling" to pay $60 to get a $45 refund! :rofl2:

I think this is more in keeping, Essex vs London.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIwDAzXEzEM