Thoughts on oil covered bricks?

I see lots of sellers insisting that their oil coated black brick of a hone is in fact, a razor hone.

What do you guys do? Take the gamble and buy it? Talk them down, get them to clean it and send you pictures?

I bought a rock like that recently on ebay, hoping for a Thuringian and wound up with a nice Dalmore Blue. If I'd paid a lot of money I would have felt jipped. In hindsight, it was a foolish risk. It paid off because I didn't get the razor finisher I wanted, but I did get the knife hone I actually needed. But I could have wound up with a generic slatey something or other.

Do you guys just aquire some sort of spidey sense that lets you know what's under that oil slick?

I suppose I ought to post the before and after pics.
https://i.ibb.co/Hg4XMHq/cartoon1674020296566.png

https://i.ibb.co/mb23HFQ/cartoon1674342824405.png

First of all, welcome. Glad you decided to join us here. Maybe stop by the member introductions thread in the beginners section. Seems as though maybe you're not a beginner exactly but that's just where it is housed. Tell us something about yourself, your experience level, what part of the world you're in, your equipment, oh and post some more pictures. We love pictures.

Concerning buying rocks, I assume you mean on auction sites like eBay or other online sellers. Yes, there is a lot of the false representation out there. I guess the word is out that if it is a knife stone people will pay $X.XX for it but if it is a razor hone (we even use our own fancy word for it:" hone" instead of stone) that people will add a zero to the end of that price. Forgive me if I am telling you stuff you already know but we in the straight razor world are subject to many afflictions such as RAD: razor acquisition disorder, SAD: soap acquisition disorder, and there are many others, not least among them HAD: hone acquisition disorder. This contributes to the asking prices. Maybe there are people who prize fancy rocks for knives too but I think that is a smaller cross section.

Anyway, in answer to your question, speaking for myself at least, there is a lot of dice rolling based on educated guessing. Once you get really acquainted with certain rocks you can sometimes see the diamond in the mud. And then sometimes I'm wrong and you hear the sad trombones on opening the package. There is also that phenomenon like the cartoons where the guys are stranded on an island and the one guy looks at the other and sees a steak. I try to avoid that but HAD can be an ugly, hideous affliction.

I personally have had pretty good luck with gambles but I prefer to see it in person. Generally the antique stores ask a premium and there is a lot of camel trading involved. Even then some people like the put museum wax or spray lacquer or whatever the dark shiny crap is on tools which includes hones, particularly boxed ones. That makes it even harder to tell because you can't spritz and dab a corner with WD-40 and a rag easily to get a closer look. I bought what I am quite certain is a washita like that that is still in the project queue because I can't get that $&#¥ off of it.
I'm sure smarter people than I have better methods but that's what I have on the matter. Hey, at least what you found wasn't an Ace hardware synthetic knife stone.

This post made me chuckle, 'spidey senses' lol. Paul pretty much nailed it, like I have definitely bought more than one paper weight, I mean Jnat in the early days. But like Paul said after some time with a certain type of stone you start to really get to know them, and know what to look for. Also developing relationships with sellers is key, you can begin to trust them and the descriptions they give. But by and large most sellers label every Jnat as hard and fine with no toxic inclusions. So I get it, it's an up hill battle, lucky for you, you're part of SRP so you can always ask if your unsure, 9 times outta 10 there's someone here who'll know. But I usually refrain from blind buying stones these days. I have too many as it is, and I'm still early into this hobby. I wonder what my house will look like in 40 years at this rate, lol.
-Laramie-

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Originally Posted by yondermountain91

...I have too many as it is, and I'm still early into this hobby. I wonder what my house will look like in 40 years at this rate, lol.
-Laramie-

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Yeah, in addition to that, pray you don't catch that sickness where you walk by a flower bed or just a plain old rock pile and say, "hmmm...:hmmm:...I bet I could make a hone out of that."

I have boxes full of rocks I found in the wild and tried to make hones from. The good part, or bad part depending on how you look at it, is a good portion of the time it works.

Oooooh.!

Attachment 346217

It'll work.!

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Oooh yeah.!

Attachment 346219

Never know what a rock can do, till its a hone.

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

First of all, welcome. Glad you decided to join us here. Maybe stop by the member introductions thread in the beginners section. Seems as though maybe you're not a beginner exactly but that's just where it is housed. Tell us something about yourself, your experience level, what part of the world you're in, your equipment, oh and post some more pictures. We love pictures.

Concerning buying rocks, I assume you mean on auction sites like eBay or other online sellers. Yes, there is a lot of the false representation out there. I guess the word is out that if it is a knife stone people will pay $X.XX for it but if it is a razor hone (we even use our own fancy word for it:" hone" instead of stone) that people will add a zero to the end of that price. Forgive me if I am telling you stuff you already know but we in the straight razor world are subject to many afflictions such as RAD: razor acquisition disorder, SAD: soap acquisition disorder, and there are many others, not least among them HAD: hone acquisition disorder. This contributes to the asking prices. Maybe there are people who prize fancy rocks for knives too but I think that is a smaller cross section.

Anyway, in answer to your question, speaking for myself at least, there is a lot of dice rolling based on educated guessing. Once you get really acquainted with certain rocks you can sometimes see the diamond in the mud. And then sometimes I'm wrong and you hear the sad trombones on opening the package. There is also that phenomenon like the cartoons where the guys are stranded on an island and the one guy looks at the other and sees a steak. I try to avoid that but HAD can be an ugly, hideous affliction.

I personally have had pretty good luck with gambles but I prefer to see it in person. Generally the antique stores ask a premium and there is a lot of camel trading involved. Even then some people like the put museum wax or spray lacquer or whatever the dark shiny crap is on tools which includes hones, particularly boxed ones. That makes it even harder to tell because you can't spritz and dab a corner with WD-40 and a rag easily to get a closer look. I bought what I am quite certain is a washita like that that is still in the project queue because I can't get that $&#¥ off of it.
I'm sure smarter people than I have better methods but that's what I have on the matter. Hey, at least what you found wasn't an Ace hardware synthetic knife stone.

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The dark shiny crap is most likely boiled linseed oil. Old time woodworkers used it on everything.

...and yeah, I'm newish to natural stones. Not new to wet shaving or most wet shaving forums in general. Just this one. I'll go post an intro thread before this post turns into one.

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Originally Posted by outback

Oooooh.!

Attachment 346217

It'll work.!

Attachment 346218

Oooh yeah.!

Attachment 346219

Never know what a rock can do, till its a hone.

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All "hones," started out being just a rock. That's why I am ever hopeful and only sometimes disappointed.

Welcome Ryan!

Case in point.
Attachment 346332

Seller says "natural stone." By this picture it's hard to tell with all the dwarf and oily crap. So I looked at the sellers other items list which is mostly women's clothing and chochskis. Had they had lots of razor or knife stuff I would have been more confident. Still, looking closely at all the photos and trying hard not to let my eyes see what they want to see...
Attachment 346333

I am more convinced to take a chance. For $44.00 I decided to take a chance that it is in fact the Ark, most likely a Washita, that I want it to be. A Washita that size and in that condition would be worth much more.

No guts no glory and all that sort of rot.

I certainly hope this works out in your favor. Stone does look good in pictures though.

Thanks John. It is certainly in good condition and because of the relative flatness in relation to how filthy it is I'm thinking it is something really hard like an Ark but it could be anything. It could be a coti even or it could be some synthetic POS. I tend to be more bullish than bearish. Sometimes I win but I also have some doorstops that I bought with stars in my eyes.

Well, sometimes you roll the dice and win and sometimes you roll the dice and lose...or at least not win.
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It is not a total loss for that price is not way out of whack for the condition it is in with the box. It does sort of bother me that he didn't show pictures of the stamps or the back side of the stone which has a small chip. You can see from the chip that it is a synthetic. Here is his description.
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Also if you look at the pictures he shows no pics of the stamps or the back side of the stone with the chip. It could easily be construed as misrepresenting the product, especially since he calls it "Oilstone," in his description.

Lots of land mines out there in ebay land. Hard sometimes to navigate around them. I'm sure you'll make it work somehow.

I contacted the seller and pointed out all that stuff. He offered to take it back even though he has a no return policy. Either take it back or give me a discount. I took a chance and for that reason I would keep it but since it seems like he misrepresented it a little I will probably take him up on the discount.

It's a No. 0 fine but even as fine as they get it would be a stretch to use it for razors; maybe for blade repair or rough bevel set. It would make a really nice knife stone. Maybe I'll clean up the box also, make it look new and gift it. I'm pretty flush on knife stones, although it would make a nice boxed bench stone.

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

I contacted the seller and pointed out all that stuff. He offered to take it back even though he has a no return policy. Either take it back or give me a discount. I took a chance and for that reason I would keep it but since it seems like he misrepresented it a little I will probably take him up on the discount.

It's a No. 0 fine but even as fine as they get it would be a stretch to use it for razors; maybe for blade repair or rough bevel set. It would make a really nice knife stone. Maybe I'll clean up the box also, make it look new and gift it. I'm pretty flush on knife stones, although it would make a nice boxed bench stone.

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this is why I havent to sell stuff on ebay etc..

The customers suck and complain

Really Tim???

The guy intentionally misrepresented what he was selling. I'd say HE sucks. Maybe you should look in the mirror also

Yes. ...............

If you don't want complaints then don't try to BS people.

What are you complaiing about at this point?

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Really Tim???

The guy intentionally misrepresented what he was selling. I'd say HE sucks. Maybe you should look in the mirror also

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I will have to look this over again

You at this point. How can you say the buyers suck when he was clearly trying to defraud by slipping one by on someone unsuspecting. There was a chip on one side which he hid. There were stamps that day Norton India Oilstone which he clearly saw since he used it as part of his description . Otherwise he would most likely have called it an "oil stone." I'm doing you a service by pointing it out so you watch out for him. YOU'RE WELCOME!

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

You at this point. How can you say the buyers suck when he was clearly trying to defraud by slipping one by on someone unsuspecting. There was a chip on one side which he hid. There were stamps that day Norton India Oilstone which he clearly saw since he used it as part of his description . Otherwise he would most likely have called it an "oil stone." I'm doing you a service by pointing it out so you watch out for him. YOU'RE WELCOME!

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How do you see this and what do you see? What do you think you see?

Look, I'm not going to dog the guy. I took a chance and I know that. If he comps my shipping I'll be happy. He knows he tried to pass it off. Otherwise why would he offer a discount? I pointed it out and told him he should have given pics of that. "Maybe keep that in mind for the future," is what I told him.

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Originally Posted by 32t

How do you see this and what do you see? What do you think you see?

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Look at the marks on the stone; the scrapes in the mud on the top. All the pics are of the same side of the stone. There's a chip on the other side which is stilluddy but clearly shows the grit of the India stone. The first thing I saw when I unwrapped it was the stamps. They were clearly visible. If you knew enough to call it a "natural" then you would know enough to look at the stamps...even if you didn't you would probably try to see what they said. I know I would. I just realized something else. How could a natural stone be "patented?"

We agreed to a discount equal to the shipping. His communication was very good and he tells me that he "took someone's word for it," selling for someone else. It sounds like they took the pictures too.That makes sense as there was no other stones or other razor or knife stuff in his other items. Also the description sounded like it was written by someone who knew stones and what buyers would be looking for. That seemed like it was a contradiction sense he didn't seem to.

I will give him this, his customer service was good and that didn't make sense that he would BS an item. Maybe I should have just eaten it and I might have had he told me he was selling it for someone else before we negotiated and he made the refund. I'm not a total jack wagon. I know buying is a risk. I just don't like being defrauded.

Edit: in case it doesn't go without saying I'll give him a good review. He has 100% positive and I think he should keep it that way.

U would think if your that interested, you could have asked the seller for additional pics of the item of interest. If then their not willing....RUN.!

Same in my line of work. Guy buys a boat from private seller, then brings it to us, just to find out the motor is junk, or the transom or floor is rotten, costing three to four times more than the boat is worth in repairs.

If they would have asked the seller to take it to a shop for verification of a safe, good running vessel, first off. It'd only cost ya $150, instead of the $2500 you gave for the only thing good left in the boat..a anchor :gaah: oh.! Not to mention the $150 u paid me to tell you its junk. :gth

If the guy says no, or won't take it to the lake, RUN.!!

Come see, come saw comes to mind!

I bought an oily black stone once. In a nice wooden box. Learned my lesson!
Was an india after cleaning. I think I gave it to Shaun?

Yes I could have asked more questions. He wouldn't have had the answers but maybe that would have been a tip. He had plenty of pictures. It took some really close examination to see they were all from the same side. That's on me though I guess. That still doesn't excuse whoever gave the description and took the pictures from from trying to defraud. That's why they have buyers protection and ratings. If you're concerned about the seller or just figure I was duped and deserve what I got, I still took a bath on a stone that wasn't what I hoped and wasn't what the called it. Remember he called it a natural In his description.

Point taken. Trust me, I'm aware I took a chance and it wasn't successful. That's kind of the whole point I was making.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Come see, come saw comes to mind!

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Yep. The OP was asking what we do. Here it is. I'm man enough to say it. Don't do it like I did it unless you're willing to lose. Hey, sometimes you gamble and win. Don't gamble with money you can't lose.

Now BS is BS in spite of "caveat emptor" and it's not cool. If you say it's a natural it had better be a natural. Now had it been a natural cake of mud then jokes on me. And Mike is right. It's always good to ask questions.

I have been pretty fortunate though. Most of the stuff I've gambled on has been at least worth keeping, even if it is not what I hoped for.