Sniped...

I'm just here to vent, I just spent every second of the last five minutes refreshing an auction on a J.R. Torrey I really wanted to complete a set I'm working on restoring at the moment...and with 2 seconds left someone out bids me...
Anybody else think that there is something very wrong with auctions ending at a given time on ebay? I mean I think the ideal solution would be to have the auction end at a given time IF there is no longer any bidding. If there is still bidding, extend the auction for another 5 minutes since the last bid until bidding ends. Both sellers and buyers would benefit from this arrangement. This way it would be much closer to a true auction.
I'm just so tired of losing auctions last second that I'm giving up on Ebay. I mean sure it's an auction, but I just feel there is something very lowly about waiting until the last 2 seconds to bid... and I feel I'm above it, but if I'm to win anything I'm going to have to lower myself to that level.

sorry to hear you didn't win your razor, but that's really how it works. the other bidder's maximum bid was higher than yours, so they won it.
make sure you bid your maximum bid, i.e. the price you are willing to pay for a razor, not the one you think you may get away with.
as far as when to place the bid - since ebay auctions end at a specific time it is smarter to place them just before it ends. what you propose - extending the bidding time would probably force more people to bid their maximum bids in the first place, but you can just do this now anyway.

I used to be in the same shoes; it's even worse when you find out you were sniped by a member, who then gloats about said beautiful razor on the forum....
(when I was new on the forums it seemed I couldn't catch ANYTHING)

However after winning a few razors that went for ridiculously high prices (which I paid, btw....) I see why so many people snipe. If you bid a higher bid *early* then it invites a bidding war, or even worse, I've seen people bid ridiculous amounts for something then retract their "mistake" now knowing what your max bid is.

It is all bad economics. I sometimes bid on things, but if I REALLY want something, I snipe it. Just because you CAN pay 5 prices for something, doesn't mean you should.

The last thing I sniped was with this free website. I was iffy about it at first, but as far as I can tell everything is free and it worked. The "special features" etc are for the pay version.

Give it a shot, unless you have lots of $$$ to throw at bidding wars.

John P.

I am with Gugi. Really what it comes down to is how much you are willing to pay for the item. No matter how long the auction is. If you are bidding low and waiting until the end thinking you won't be outbid- you are wrong. Period. However, if you bid the second the auction starts and it is your maximum bid, then you are being more realistic. If someone then tries to snipe with 2 seconds left and their snipe is lower than your maximum... you win. Anyone who snipes will be bidding once at the end and it will be the absolute most that they are willing to pay.

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Originally Posted by JohnP

I used to be in the same shoes; it's even worse when you find out you were sniped by a member, who then gloats about said beautiful razor on the forum....
(when I was new on the forums it seemed I couldn't catch ANYTHING)

[snip]

John P.

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I only take issue with this statement - about other members sniping you.

For one thing, with the new ebay security measures, you have no idea who has bid or where they are in the bidding - it shows that stupid b***d for the names.

Two, as gentlemanly as SRP is, you can't expect that all 4000+ members to check to see if they're bidding against you. The truth is that they probably are.

Three, I personally won a Dorko #14 eBay auction - just like the one Don (Taz) posted in Show and Tell recently. I expected that the auction for it was going to end up well in the $200 range and I decided that I would snipe at $250 - initially. The thing is that I told just about everyone who visited chat over the week leading up to the end auction that I wanted that razor and was going to snipe. EVERY SRP member I told - including one who intended to snipe for more money than me - BOWED out because I told them of my desire. I ended up sniping at $302 - I won the auction at $129. Why? Because the gentlemen who knew of my sniping and wanting that Dorko didn't snipe.

My advice?

One, if you really want something, snipe higher than you think it will sell for (and at the price you are willing to pay).

Two, take the risk of letting other SRP members know that you are wanting that razor, tell them how much you want it (what you would snipe for).

I'm willing to bet that you'll get it for less than you thought or sniped because of the gentlemen of SRP.

Byron

If you are not winning auctions then you are not bidding enough. That is the way eBay works.

Hi everyone thanks for your input, I guess my main point in this reply is to state that the razor in question I thought I had bid more than enough this time through...as I had made my mistake bidding too low on previous auctions...hence this time through I easily bid $30 over what I've seen the razor asked for anywhere else...thinking I had secured the razor...but afraid of being sniped I kept an eye on it anyways, and sure enough I was outbid. I comes down to who wants it more, and has nothing to do with actual value of the item. With the ever growing demand for straights it is becoming near impossible to approximate the selling price of any razor. Razors I purchased for $10 two weeks ago at my local antique shop I've seen go for better than $90 on ebay...
Like I said I was just venting, it was the 10th razor in 2 days that I lost out on when I thought I was bidding reasonably above their actual worth...however I am new to shopping on ebay(at least for highly desirable items)...and my estimates are based on real world markets, not world wide net auctions....I may still try my hand on things I really REALLY want, but at this point I'm sure I'll over pay for it on ebay, which defeats the purpose of using it really.

You should just use a sniper service yourself. Gixen is free and works great. That way you can just set snipes for several razors at the price that you would be willing to pay. If you win then great, and if you don't then no big deal. It saves time and money.

Byron,
Is there a way to go about setting up a new forum in which members can simply make it be known that they are really after an item and would appreciate other members not bid? I mean just to simplify the whole process so members know who's after what...and make things cheaper for everyone trying to score on ebay. I know I could just start a thread in this forum but it could get burried...so does anyone else think this is a good idea? or am I alone on this one?

I don't use a sniper service myself, and when I bid I bid my max, sometimes I win, sometimes I don't. I'll admit snipers keep the overall prices low as they don't give the other bidders as much time ro reconsider the value, but that's a good thing.

A sniper will put up the same mazimum bid as they would when not sniping in my opinion.

All in all I tend to bid on items that are misspelled or mislisted.

Guys I gotta tell you If I know you want it and I don't really care about it I am more than willing to step aside. But if its something I want or need don't think that just because another member is bidding on it I won't. I mean ebays all about who willing to pay the most. And expecting someone to step aside just because your bidding is silly.

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Originally Posted by Dephunct101

Byron,
Is there a way to go about setting up a new forum in which members can simply make it be known that they are really after an item and would appreciate other members not bid? I mean just to simplify the whole process so members know who's after what...and make things cheaper for everyone trying to score on ebay. I know I could just start a thread in this forum but it could get burried...so does anyone else think this is a good idea? or am I alone on this one?

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Really there is no way to make sure other's won't bid against you... if I can get a NOS Dorko for $30 I'm gonna bid against you for it And I'd bid against most other people here for the same.

That said in the chat we do tend to share a lot of what we're going after and what our minimum price is, I usually tell people to atch an item and if it goes over my max bit it's fair game (usually done with the badly listed items that wouldn't have been found otherwise.)

All in all the free market is great, I'm not gonna pass up on a great deal because someone else wants it, no matter how close they are to me. On the other hand I often hold the razors I'm bidding on very lose to the vest so others won't find them.

yep - don't expect that others won't bid against you. i pulled out of bidding on the dorko, because i knew i've got no chance agains byron's bid (i wasn't willing to go to 250) and I didn't care of making him spend all his money (and thus have less for further bids). I didn't expect that it'll go for 130 - there are a lot of people outside of SRP that bid on these things. I just thought i'd bail out of it as many others did, as he was gonna win anyways and I didn't mind him spending less.

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Originally Posted by ByronTodd

I only take issue with this statement - about other members sniping you.

For one thing, with the new ebay security measures, you have no idea who has bid or where they are in the bidding - it shows that stupid b***d for the names.

Two, as gentlemanly as SRP is, you can't expect that all 4000+ members to check to see if they're bidding against you. The truth is that they probably are.


One, if you really want something, snipe higher than you think it will sell for (and at the price you are willing to pay).

Two, take the risk of letting other SRP members know that you are wanting that razor, tell them how much you want it (what you would snipe for).

I'm willing to bet that you'll get it for less than you thought or sniped because of the gentlemen of SRP.

Byron

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Byron, with all due respect, I'm referring to ancient history here, (I've been a member a LOOOOONG time, since before this site existed... do a search for jpfaster1 on the old yahoo site-and you'll no doubt see some of my first posts with complaints very similar to the OP-) and times were different. I've had exactly what I referred to occur. It was good natured ribbing, of course, but no one is going to *let* you have anything they *really* want.
If I do know someone is a member, I will often contact them; after all, it's a bit ungentlemanly (I think) to make someone pay their max price if I snipe just a bit under. I'm all for bidding at the get-go my max price-if it's not much. If we are dealing in wonderedges and the like-it makes more sense to snipe that amount. Otherwise, all an early bid of a maximum price does-is make sure you pay that amount.
Unless you are bidding on something nobody else wants.

Wonderedges, Friodurs, etc etc are not such animals.
Times do change. Wonderedges were going for $35.00 when I got into this mess, but (typical) I wanted none of them, vehemently defended my Simco and Dovo (which used not to be so popular...) and went after W&B choppers.
To each his own I guess.

If you know someone specifically wants a razor you are interested in, I would recommend that instead of listing it on the forum (other people peruse our posts also, some with REALLY deep pockets) that you PM that person; if they want it more, it can be settled before either of you pay through the nose for the thing. Otherwise, it's a good bet that NEITHER of you will win it.
Have fun and good luck.
*you could also just buy a razor or two from members* I've bought a few from Lynn, John Crowley, Dave Wessel and others...never regretted any of them.


John P.


edit: just saw your post, Gugi, it is exactly what I've been rambling to say. I agree. In fact, I recently won a razor that Robert was looking at, after PM ing him about it. I guess I wanted it more, but since I knew he was a member I didn't want to drive his price up.

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Originally Posted by JohnP

If I do know someone is a member, I will often contact them; after all, it's a bit ungentlemanly (I think) to make someone pay their max price if I snipe just a bit under.

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+1 for that. And I'd like to add that Byron is always quite upfront in the chat on what he's going after and what his max bid is, as exhibited by gugi's post.

Sadly with the new ebay rules we don't know who we're bidding against and will have to revert to more outside discussion of prices. It will probably result in higher prices as auctions will be more visible and some things that would have previously gone under the radar to be brought into full light. Good for ebay, bad for us IMO. But I do stand by informing the friends you learn and work with of your intentions.

JohnP,

Gotcha. I guess what I was trying to say is that part about 4000+ members and with ebay security measures, there's just no way to tell who is bidding. I guess I was taking issue with the "member gloating" part. I would have stated that they were showing off what they got - whether or not they actually intended to gloat at the person(s) who lost.

That said, I told people (about the dorko) in the chat channel and usually as a PM. Further, I backed it up. I did snipe at $301.99 - here's an image from myibay.com which I use to snipe: http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snipesaw3.jpg

And as I told everyone whom I PM'd: my intention was not to keep them from bidding, my intention was to find out if they were bidding more than I - if so, I would not have sniped at all. I did not ask anyone to not bid. I did not tell them "stay away" and I guess I trusted them that they would not snipe just below my snipe. That trust paid off.

I like ebay in general, but tend to hate it if there's something I want on it. See, the problem with ebay is that the value of something is not just determined by its "intrinsic" worth as a razor, say, but by how much someone else, whom you don't know and have never met before, values it. The value of the razor is one thing - the value that someone else places on it is sometimes quite another.

So you might value a particular razor, not unreasonably, at $60 dollars, put a max.bid on it of $80 (just to be sure), and then discover that someone from the Antipodes valued it at $350 because their great uncle once performed an emergency tracheotomy on the Prime Minister of Australia with one of the same type during the great flood of '62. On his deathbed he charged his great-nephew to find that razor (a map to the greatest treasure Australia has ever seen - a thanks from a grateful Prime Minister - is coded into the scales) and you, poor bugger, simply got in the way of a 20-year quest across 5 continents and involving a bevy of beautiful, but sinister, femme fatales from a rival family bent on avenging a 6-generation feud.....

Next time you bid, think about that....


James.

I could try to defend the reasoning behind what I proposed, but I feel I should just stop posting at this point. You know that guy in your group of friends that says " how about we ...(fill in the blank with some bad idea)?" and every makes a face and just turns and looks at him and someone says "how about we not"...
well I'm apparently that guy in this forum....

Even though that may be one way to look at it, I'm pretty sure there have been plenty of us who have thought the same thing when we've kept being outbid. Plus we've talked about this stuff many times that we've already essentially reached a consensus on the matter. I think you've done a great service to all the new frustrated members by letting the rest of us sound all smart and all knowing :)

I think eventually everybody gets few good razors and stops worrying too much about the razors that we've missed. I am very happy to say that my best razors and my best deals I have gotten not on ebay, but from SRP members.

Of course I've got my share of great deals that I may have missed on, but there are plenty of good ones I've gotten too and I've been at this just about 6 months.
As long as we're having fun I think we're doing fine.
:)

Prices have risen but I remember a few years ago when I might have had RAD, which never infested me, when a guy on Ebay was a collector. I forget his name. This guy was very wealthy and he bid $1000 on every razor on Ebay. He would win every razor and then throw it into his collection. He had endless amounts of money. The only reason any of us are winning any razors today is because he lost interest. Either that or the ricin powder I shook all over the one razor I sold on Ebay.

Well I hope that if I ever get around to listing any razors/shaving gear of mine, that the gentlemen put on their gloves.
It would be so disappointing to see an item do poorly just because of the "I saw this first & I am going to snipe xxx amount of $$$, so would you all kindly step back and let me win this sucker for as little as possible".
Hell, if an SRP member didn't want anyone to know he was going to snipe on anothers claim ~ he'd just create a new Ebay ID & just go for it!

Bugger the gentlemen, give me a caveman any day ~ or better still a "barber ian" :roflmao
......momma

I have been going to auctions as lon as I remember. My mother loved to go to auctions we went every weekend to sales and flea markets. I love to go "junkin" as we called it. The thrill was in finding a treasure hiden in a box of junk they were throwing together at the end of the sale and selling for one money. This said the person who looses at the end of the sale is the person with either less money or less desire to own the item.

As for sniping I hate it. I think the true sprit of the auction is to watch and bid. I realize that people cant just sit ad wait for a given item to end but proxy bidding helps with that. I sometimes end my auctions early to foil snipers. I like the idea of the floating finish. Extend the sale a given time past the last bid. This gives a true auction end. Going once, Going twice, sold to the higest bidder.

Don

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Originally Posted by ByronTodd

Gotcha. I guess what I was trying to say is that part about 4000+ members and with ebay security measures, there's just no way to tell who is bidding. I guess I was taking issue with the "member gloating" part. I would have stated that they were showing off what they got - whether or not they actually intended to gloat at the person(s) who lost.

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Fair enough-as many will tell you (who knows perhaps you got your start over there too) the yahoo group was a little different. I recall posting I was going after a certain razor and then when another member won it I was offered the chance to "borrow" it. Today it's hilarious but at the time I didn't see the humor.
I'm also "chat"phobic most of the time; I can't login to chat portions of sites unless I am at home (not too often) as they are blocked by the Gov't controlled intranet we use. (Other Navy types know what I'm talking about, good 'ol NMCI) but it seems we agree in principle at any rate (if I knew someone was on the chat posting about something, unless I REEEAAALLLLY wanted it (e.g. didn't already have 6 of them) I'd back off.)

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Originally Posted by AFDAVIS11

Prices have risen but I remember a few years ago when I might have had RAD, which never infested me, when a guy on Ebay was a collector. I forget his name. This guy was very wealthy and he bid $1000 on every razor on Ebay. He would win every razor and then throw it into his collection. He had endless amounts of money. The only reason any of us are winning any razors today is because he lost interest. Either that or the ricin powder I shook all over the one razor I sold on Ebay.

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My earlier comment about collectors with deep pockets was in direct reference to this guy. I remember it seemed no matter what price we bid, the "good" stuff would go to him for ridiculous sums of money. Who knows, he may even be a member these days, but I remember hoping that people would bid him up enough that he'd let the rest of us have a chance once in awhile....everyone should have a *little* good luck. I guess if I were *selling* him razors, he'd have been my best friend, but I have a hard time actually parting with razors I've put effort into....

John P.

I SNIPE. I love it too. I don't always win, but it helps. Really no matter what kind of auction it is or when it ends waht it comes down to is who is willing to pay the most for an item. I used to complain about snipers until I looked into it myself and found how easy it was.

And Junkin, by ending your auctions early, you only hurt yourself. Your items would probably sell higher if you let it run until the end. :shrug: High winning bids are kind of the point of auctioning your items.

Yep being perfectly honest here, I snipe every thing... and I think those of you that don't, drive up the prices worse than the e-bay newbies.... sorry that's just the way I see it....
I however don't usually target pretty shiny razors I target potential....

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yep being perfectly honest here, I snipe every thing... and I think those of you that don't, drive up the prices worse than the e-bay newbies.... sorry that's just the way I see it....
I however don't usually target pretty shiny razors I target potential....

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exactly.
There was a time I hated snipers. Now if I really want something I snipe it. I've paid 4 prices for something in my earlier days at this stuff, just because of a bidding war...and guess what. The next one or two of those? went for a higher price.
It's how prices go up. That, and for some reason if Lynn even thought about a razor more than twice the prices went up on the things.

John P.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

So you might value a particular razor, not unreasonably, at $60 dollars, put a max.bid on it of $80 (just to be sure), and then discover that someone from the Antipodes valued it at $350 because their great uncle once performed an emergency tracheotomy on the Prime Minister of Australia with one of the same type during the great flood of '62. On his deathbed he charged his great-nephew to find that razor (a map to the greatest treasure Australia has ever seen - a thanks from a grateful Prime Minister - is coded into the scales) and you, poor bugger, simply got in the way of a 20-year quest across 5 continents and involving a bevy of beautiful, but sinister, femme fatales from a rival family bent on avenging a 6-generation feud.....

Next time you bid, think about that....James.

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:roflmao:roflmao:roflmao

Snipe or be sniped. Like it or not, it is what it has become. IMO you can stew about the merits or lack thereof of snipers and not have any razors you'd otherwise like to win or you can snipe and have a chance at winning a few. There are scads of sniping services. I was in your shoes 9 months ago (steam coming out of my ears over those dirty rotten snipers). Now I can "set it and forget it" on the snipe service I use and win a large majority of what I want.

Chris L

Call it snipe if you like, I call it bidding at the last possible moment. :D It's an unfortunate situation for the seller but Ebay is not a true auction where you have the going, going and gone finale. I see no reason to bid early, I set my bid to the max I'm willing to pay and place that bid at the last moment. If I win, I win, if not... someone else wanted it more than me. What irks me is that if I bid early, someone can chip away at my bid to find my maximum and then just go $1 higher... I don't think that's fair so thus my last minute bid. I also don't pull bids just because someone I know is bidding, I know what *I'm* willing to pay for the item, if someone else is willing to pay more, great. If someone isn't willing to pay more than me, it should rightfully become mine.

Regards

Kaptain "All is fair in love and Ebay bidding!" Zero

I personally like the idea of a Dutch auction, although I guess there are practical issues with implementing something like that on ebay (but I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to do - maybe it's already been done...:shrug:) Make things a whole lot quicker too.

James.

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Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

What irks me is that if I bid early, someone can chip away at my bid to find my maximum and then just go $1 higher... I don't think that's fair so thus my last minute bid. I also don't pull bids just because someone I know is bidding, I know what *I'm* willing to pay for the item, if someone else is willing to pay more, great. If someone isn't willing to pay more than me, it should rightfully become mine.

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agree. I am a little different, however-if I notice I'm bidding against a member sometimes I will simply PM them and warn them I'm getting ready to snipe the razor they are bidding on, and the amount Ive set it for. I know it's only on honor and what not, but then if their max bid is higher than my snipe, I don't make them pay 100 bucks for a razor they could've gotten for 50 without my snipe. What goes around comes around, basically.

John P.

well with the new ebay system it really a mute topic anyway because the names are covered,

True....although just last week it was different.
Pretty soon I'll bet you won't know how many have bid on the thing, either. Just a current price...
John P.

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Originally Posted by Dephunct101

but at this point I'm sure I'll over pay for it on ebay, which defeats the purpose of using it really.

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There is a big picture here that I do not think you are getting. What a razor, or any product, sells for at auction is its market value at that given moment. You can think the price is too high or too low, but the razor was obviously worth that price to whomever purchased it. So by definition, that is what the razor is worth. Or has someone christened you the ultimate auction price authority?

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Originally Posted by prhomme

There is a big picture here that I do not think you are getting. What a razor, or any product, sells for at auction is its market value at that given moment. You can think the price is too high or too low, but the razor was obviously worth that price to whomever purchased it. So by definition, that is what the razor is worth. Or has someone christened you the ultimate auction price authority?

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I agree, It is worth what the buyer pays for it and 50 cents less to the runner up. I have a baseball card that a book valued at around 500.00 but try to get that out of it. I got it in a box of misc. junk at an estate sale 57 tops Frank Robinson. That day it was worth less than 50 cents. I would gladly trade it for a mig welder or jeep parts or cash or razors or coleman lanterns or,or,or, I could also start a fire with it on a cold day. BTW you can buy it now on ebay for 139.99.

Don

I always use an online sniper as well, not because I feel the need to snipe to win but because I'm on dial up, that means one refresh about every fifteen seconds, I won't have time to re-bid if I get outbid and I will just get frustrated. I avoid the hit to my blood pressure by just setting up Gixen and letting it go.

If you like auctions that go until the last bid is in, participate in the e-bay live auctions. there have been a couple of large razor collections sold off this way in the last couple of years. Just like going to the auction house.

I think of E-bay as a big gambling game. As long as I don't get caught up in the hype, I'm fine. I have fun, but I lose 9 out of 10 times I play. Of course all the times I do win make it worth it. Just like the slot machines in the Indian casino.

I'll try something on ebay now & then.....mostly safety razors or well photographed straights.....rarely do I ever win.

I've found that the b/s/t here and over at B&B have much fairer prices than ebay and if you're the first in line....it's yours:)

If you're looking for a particular razor, try posting a WTB here and see what happens......I did, and I now have a Dubl Duck Goldedge on its way to me:D

I realize you've been around much longer than I have, but I just figured I'd throw my .02 in there as perhaps, a fresh perspective.

Anyway, sorry you got sniped...I dunno why it is called sniping...I mean in the real world, if you're a victim of a sniper, you won't even know it:gth

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

I always use an online sniper as well, not because I feel the need to snipe to win but because I'm on dial up, that means one refresh about every fifteen seconds, I won't have time to re-bid if I get outbid and I will just get frustrated. I avoid the hit to my blood pressure by just setting up Gixen and letting it go.

If you like auctions that go until the last bid is in, participate in the e-bay live auctions. there have been a couple of large razor collections sold off this way in the last couple of years. Just like going to the auction house.

I think of E-bay as a big gambling game. As long as I don't get caught up in the hype, I'm fine. I have fun, but I lose 9 out of 10 times I play. Of course all the times I do win make it worth it. Just like the slot machines in the Indian casino.

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+1 here thats the other reason I started Sniping living in the country has many advantages, high speed internet ain't one of them.... And no satt high speed is not a great option, to many trees, to much rain, to much snow, and way to much razor $$$$......

last night i was also sniped on a torrey, and i'm glad i was using gixen. if i wasn't, there's no telling what i'd have bid... when i first spotted it, i thought "hey, torreys are usually pretty fairly priced americans. a 70$ snipe should cover it". by the time gixen clocked in to bit it was already over 90. that is an exemplary piece indeed, but i guess i undervalued it

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Originally Posted by prhomme

TWhat a razor, or any product, sells for at auction is its market value at that given moment. You can think the price is too high or too low, but the razor was obviously worth that price.

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Exactly. That is the value.

My dad was an auctioneer for over a decade in the 80's/90's, so I agree with some of what junkinduck said - but, E-Bay truly is a different beast. With a "real" auction, you can actually gage the person you're bidding against. Like Wildtim said, it's a gamble - with a live "real" auction, it's a lot like poker. You have to put on your game face, and know how to see the bluff. With E-Bay, the so-called "snipe" is the ultimate bluff.