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Some reason the pattern that would make this razor appear to be damascus looks fake. All of the other damascus blades that I've seen are entirely damascus, you can see the pattern from the layering of the steel all over the razor - unlike this one it's only on the face of the razor. The rear doesn't have the pattern nor does the tang at all. Looks pretty fake on the face as well. Anyone else notice that? Is it phony?
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-MINT-GEN...QQcmdZViewItem
Looks to me like a damascus-like pattern was etched on to the front side of the blade, which is regular steel.
Well to be strictly honest about it all razors that call themselves Damascus are phony. Even the 'real ones" are patterned or layered steel. The one you mention is certainly just a surface pattern.
While that razor is a real "Damascus" razor, it is not what you are thinking of wrt pattern welded or (if there really are some out there) wootz steel razors.
Bear in mind that with vintage razors the technology for making Wootz was as it were lost. Makers would use the name "Damascus" as a trademark or to imply a particular blade was supposed to be better. It has only been in the last 50 years (or less) that pattern welding has been rediscovered, along with some of the metallurgical secrets of Wootz that had been lost.
I'm sure there are a few here who could give you even more detailed information.
In a nutshell, the razor is not a fake. It is old and "Damascus" is simply the name of it. When the razor was made, nobody knew how to make "real" Damascus anymore.
Hope this helps.
John P.
You're right about the wootz, but i'm not so sure that the technique of pattern welding was lost until the last 50 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnP
Possibly. I'm not a metallurgist, but I've read various places saying that Bill Moran made the first knife out of it (here in U.S.) for some time in 1970 or so and that it created a real commotion.
I've also read places that said the Germans were making blades of it in WWII but who knows, Solingen got bombed flat as did quite a few other places.
It'd be really interesting however to have a blade made of each that was expendible to the point one could do all sorts of testing on it, then reproduce blades with the information gained.
There probably already is such a site but I'm lazy and about to go to work today....
John P.
From my understanding not even Wootz is considered "real" damascus, just the closest thing modern metalurgy has been able to produce.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnP
I fantasize about getting a chunk of a real, antique damascus blade...a few have been cut up for scientific analysis over the years, maybe a chunk of one of those...then having it ground into a razor. Now that would be something:D
Here is another one on ebay. It's very expensive, so some bidders seem to think it's "real" damascus.
But the razor box says PRICE: $5.00Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveS
Geneva Cutlery do a razor called 'The Damascus' I own one , it's by no means made of Damascus steel - think it's just a celebration of it mine is etched with the details of a snake - and is one of the best shavers in my collection ....
This could be of a similar idea ...
I'm trying to get as many Geneva's as I can my hands on _ I can't rate the shave you get from them highly enough ..
Garry
It had me fooled for a second when I looked at it just now.
But maybe we can ask Mike how the metal should be folded to end up with the text 'damascus' coming out of the acid etch.
:roflmao
And I am far from an expert, but if this thing is hollow ground, then I would expect the pattern to make a lot of sharp corners and jagged edges.
For example, that thick white line that goes from the oe to the heel is much too uniform imo.
But as I said I might be horribly wrong. It has been known to happen... (I am married. These days I am wrong most of the time :D :roflmao )
Which makes you wonder....if a married man is alone in the forest....is he still wrong when he speaks and his wife can't hear him?
:HJ completely.
But yes - according to every wife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LX_Emergency
That's funny, my wife says I'm always right. What is strange is how she says it: :rant:Quote:
Originally Posted by ByronTodd
Lee, your wife says that, in that way, because it's a clue for you. From her perspective the conversation was over before you knew it.
Unfortunately, I can't view ebay stuff at work, but I can glean from enough posts that the blade in question is likely to be simply etched to appear to be layered.
I'll give Bill Moran credit for "re-popularizing" pattern welded steels in the US, 30+ years ago, but we shouldn't forget folks like Bill Bagwell, Daryl Meier and Bill Fiorini who were there in the beginning but didn't get the knife media to make them famous.
Holland and Holland in the UK have been making pattern welded steels for gun barrels continuously. Manfed Sachse was working off old WW2 German billets until the 1970's and making new ones. The Japanese have been making pattern welded sword blades since before time almost with only a little hiatus and restarting in 1947. There is nothing special about US pattern welding. I'm surprised that more folks around the world arent' offended by our arrogance in that one item.
It'd be possible to make a mosaic pattern or powder metal pattern that read damascus in the steel that would be more genuine than a simple etched surface. Not impossible, only complicated and there are plenty of knowledgable smiths in the US who could. Lots of layup time and materials preparation.