Ebay Policies Last Straw WARNING: Rant!

Ok, I've been very patient with eBay over the last few years that I've had a store with them. I've dealt with their crappy server software glitches, user-UNfriendly listing programs, etc.

But now...

Their new feedback policy has just gone into effect at my store. My wife and I have worked our asses off providing top notch customer service. And for the entire time we've had the store we've maintained a 100% positive feedback rating, until now.

Ebay's new rating calculation counts two neutrals we received, due to slow shipping on the pasrt of the good 'ole USPS, against us. Now our rating is 99.1%!

Now some may say that's still a good rating. But it's still not 100% and that's gold on eBay.

We've refunded customers, sent out duplicate items due to purcahes lost in the mail (yep USPS again), tracked items, etc, etc and now we get dinged for something that wasn't even our fault :rant:

No, we haven't complained to eBay yet, but I can almost hear the answer, "We're sorry sir, but a lot of our sellers are unhappy with the new changes...but a 99.1% is still a good rating..." Yada, yada, yada...

So I'm considering canceling our store. If that's the way eBay is going to treat the people who are helping them to make their miilions...well :nono:

Anyways, now that that's off my chest, what do you all think?



Scott

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

Ok, I've been very patient with eBay over the last few years that I've had a store with them. I've dealt with their crappy server software glitches, user-UNfriendly listing programs, etc.

But now...

Their new feedback policy has just gone into effect at my store. My wife and I have worked our asses off providing top notch customer service. And for the entire time we've had the store we've maintained a 100% positive feedback rating, until now.

Ebay's new rating calculation counts two neutrals we received, due to slow shipping on the pasrt of the good 'ole USPS, against us. Now our rating is 99.1%!

Now some may say that's still a good rating. But it's still not 100% and that's gold on eBay.

We've refunded customers, sent out duplicate items due to purcahes lost in the mail (yep USPS again), tracked items, etc, etc and now we get dinged for something that wasn't even our fault :rant:

No, we haven't complained to eBay yet, but I can almost hear the answer, "We're sorry sir, but a lot of our sellers are unhappy with the new changes...but a 99.1% is still a good rating..." Yada, yada, yada...

So I'm considering canceling our store. If that's the way eBay is going to treat the people who are helping them to make their miilions...well :nono:

Anyways, now that that's off my chest, what do you all think?



Scott

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I would say don't "cut off your nose to spite your face". If you have been making good money selling on ebay a 99% rating isn't going to make that much difference if any at all. I think most people take the persons overall rating under consideration. I have no problem buying from a seller with less then 100% unless their rating is so low compared to their overall number of feedbacks it is obvious that they have a problem.

I never put much truck in ebay seller ratings.
Sure, I would not buy from a seller with 13 % positive feedback, but a seller with 1000 sales and 99% positive feedback is the same for me as 100%.

What I'v always found unfair was that sellers refuse to leave feedabck before I left mine. WTF?
As long as I pay on time, they should leave feedback because my end of the deal is fulfilled.

Instead they wait for my feedback, and then pay back in kind.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I never put much truck in ebay seller ratings.
Sure, I would not buy from a seller with 13 % positive feedback, but a seller with 1000 sales and 99% positive feedback is the same for me as 100%.

What I'v always found unfair was that sellers refuse to leave feedabck before I left mine. WTF?
As long as I pay on time, they should leave feedback because my end of the deal is fulfilled.

Instead they wait for my feedback, and then pay back in kind.

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I disagree on when a buyer should expect feedback, it ain't a done deal until the buyer receives and approves the item. Then the transaction is complete.

Scott,
I know the feeling. On the new "stars" ratings...communication, item as described, shipping time, shipping cost I've already lost half of my fifth star on shipping time and shipping costs.

On small items I sell on eBay..vintage fountain pens I ship the day after I get paid via Priority Mail at actual cost. It also states that in my auctions so why the hit on time and cost?? My only shipping cost mixups were with International First Class and on those I refunded the difference once I had the actual figure.

I can't help the USPS costs or tansit times yet take the hit.

On the vintage typewriters I sell I make it clear it will take an extra day or two for safe packing.

I can almost bet now that the sellers cannot leave neg or neutrals buyers will be even more eager to leave negs for sellers.

Tony

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Originally Posted by Slant-Fan

I disagree on when a buyer should expect feedback, it ain't a done deal until the buyer receives and approves the item. Then the transaction is complete.

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Unfortunately there are sellers who don't place feedback even then unless buyer has :(

As far as when to leave feedback, until my buyer has told me that the item has arrived, is in good shape, is what they expected and wanted, the sale is still not completed. The only way the buyer has to tell me those things is, usually, through feedback. Once I know that the buyer is happy, I complete the sale with my feedback.

As to the other, we are holding on for a bit just to see what happens. Reading the seller message boards on eBay, a lot of sellers are P.O'd.


Scott

I think that sucks. Neutral feedback should be just that. It shouldn't count against you. Maybe you can put a comment on your site to mention it.

They don't teach this in school anymore... "The buyer is the king"

This is an effort to make a sweeter deal for buyers on ebay… so they will stay with ebay.

Lets face it, scared/dissatisfied buyers = less business for both ebay and sellers.
How many times you hear people complaining about being “screwed” by sellers with high feedback count (the bullies). As far as I know, feedback count do not expire, and if you are in the ebay selling business long enough your count will go up, so the future is still in favor of the seller.

Sure ebay/paypal share of your profit have gone up, but open a brick and mortar shop space... sale or no sale you will still have recurring expenses... rent, furnishing, utilities, repair, pilferage, security, TAX!!! (did I miss anything?)

And yes you WILL meet the unreasonable ebay customer but thank goodness they are far and few between so don’t fret… simply keep up the good work and you will always have new and repeat customers no matter what the percentages say.

And remember... You cannot satisfy everybody... but you can satisfy most!

You can still list somebody on your refuse to sell to list, if they leave too many negatives, they will in essence black list themselves...

I can tell you this much, if I do sell, I will be looking at the feedback the buyer has left, and if it's all negative, they may go on my list before the auction is closed...
Not to mention I'll probably watch some of my favorite sellers to see who has burned them.
There are too many users on E-bay to weed all the bad ones out, but if this is the only recourse, I will use it.

i think it is not fair to sellers, ebay policys stink, if you and your wife have worked hard to maintain a store through them they should not do that, i quit selling on ebay because of the high sellers fee's, now i just sell stuff i dont use on different forums. just my 2 cent's worth

I would say people shouldn't worry too much about feedback. It really isn't all that important.

My take on this is that less than perfect feedback is better. Why - because it weeds out the bidders who I wouldn't like to trade with. Yes, that is right, somebody who insists on sellers having perfect 100% feedback before doing business with them is too high of a risk, it means they doesn't understand how things work and have unreasonable expectations - no thanks, i'd rather deal with mature adults.

There are only 2 bidders who determine the final price - the second highest and the highest. Sometimes these two bids are far off the rest of them, but that's a fluctuation that I wouldn't rely on. In virtually all cases loosing a bidder corresponds to no change and rarely at most a couple of dollars lower price. That's not worth worrying.

So no system will be perfect, but for something with so little overhead as the feedback system, I'd say almost everything will work pretty much the same. The whole idea behind selling to complete strangers without seeing and inspecting the items relies on the vast majority of people being reasonable and trusting. Seems to be working quite well.
Perfection may be nice to make me feel good about myself, but from the business side a bit more pragmatic point of view is much better.

And yes I have 1 negative feedback, which was a retaliatory feedback over a $1 item which the scammer (he was later investigated by the police) never sent. I expected the negative and had about 15-20 feedback at the time, yet to me it was a matter of principle to leave correct feedback.

Well considering a lot of eBay sellers would hold feedback hostage until they get their positive feed back, makes me question the persons 100% positive feedback. Like how many times has the seller been due a negative but someone left a positive to keep theirs intact?
As it was said, if your a buyer and only have 30 feedback or whatever 1 negative can really screw you up.

For me, if someones feedback ain't 100% I will check the negative and the sellers feedback to that member and judge whether or not it was just retaliatory, if it was then I probably won't buy off them. Also if its a powerseller or something I expect something to go wrong nothing lasts forever. Oh and finally, if its someone who sells frequently like a few things a week, then I don't judge feedback thats more than 6mths old.

This is just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I never put much truck in ebay seller ratings.
Sure, I would not buy from a seller with 13 % positive feedback, but a seller with 1000 sales and 99% positive feedback is the same for me as 100%.

What I'v always found unfair was that sellers refuse to leave feedabck before I left mine. WTF?
As long as I pay on time, they should leave feedback because my end of the deal is fulfilled.

Instead they wait for my feedback, and then pay back in kind.

---

I had an auction not to long ago where I sold two ink cartridges on ebay. The customer paid very quickly and I left positive feedback. Shortly thereafter the SOB started making up stories about 1 cartridge being empty, and another spilling out before he could use it. He accused me of selling refilled cartridges. I agreed to give the SOB a refund to avoid a long drawnout affair with Paypal which I would have eventually lost anyway. So now I wil not leave feedback until the buyer does. I used to always leave positive feedback first.

I beware every seller who has more than a thousand ratings. I've had more problems with busy sellers who don't have time to make sure they aren't selling junk.

I don't make many transactions on eBay anymore. Seller fees keep rising which not only make it hard for me to sell, but this also drives sellers to marginalize quality of service and/or goods to keep up.

Of course, Ebay Australia has brought in a trial of taking away every payment option except for PayPal. Expect it to be implemented in all their sites soon enough.

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Originally Posted by jwoods

i think it is not fair to sellers, ebay policys stink, if you and your wife have worked hard to maintain a store through them they should not do that, i quit selling on ebay because of the high sellers fee's, now i just sell stuff i dont use on different forums. just my 2 cent's worth

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Nah, it just means no one will have 100% positive feedback.

If you are interested in doing business, it won't mean anything. If your pride is hurt, well, welcome to the real world.

Frankly, as a buyer, I don't care what sellers think of this. I LOVE IT.

If the original poster and his wife have really worked their asses off to maintain a good store, then I am sure I would buy from them if they had a good product. Since NO ONE ELSE ON EBAY WILL HAVE A 100% POSITIVE RATING, THE FACT THAT THEY DON'T WON'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.

If the original poster and his wife close their store in protest, well then, I will buy from someone else on EBAY. I will never leave ebay as a buyer if they keep working like this to serve my needs.

Those sellers who left Ebay are the real joke. Who are they going to sell to?

It's going to get ugly alright. But only for the sellers who leave Ebay.

There was another thread I was reading yesterday that said some sellers are leaving for ecrater.com, onlineauction.com and others. I was looking at selling on ebay until the fee hikes and some issues I've had with sellers posting neg feedback to try and force a mutual withdraw. Talking to ebay about it was worse than talking to my dog, at least he listens. I don't believe that ebay is trying to help anyone but themselves. I understand its a business but they seem to be screwing over their customers.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

Ok, I've been very patient with eBay over the last few years that I've had a store with them. I've dealt with their crappy server software glitches, user-UNfriendly listing programs, etc.

But now...

Their new feedback policy has just gone into effect at my store. My wife and I have worked our asses off providing top notch customer service. And for the entire time we've had the store we've maintained a 100% positive feedback rating, until now.

Ebay's new rating calculation counts two neutrals we received, due to slow shipping on the pasrt of the good 'ole USPS, against us. Now our rating is 99.1%!

Now some may say that's still a good rating. But it's still not 100% and that's gold on eBay.

We've refunded customers, sent out duplicate items due to purcahes lost in the mail (yep USPS again), tracked items, etc, etc and now we get dinged for something that wasn't even our fault :rant:

No, we haven't complained to eBay yet, but I can almost hear the answer, "We're sorry sir, but a lot of our sellers are unhappy with the new changes...but a 99.1% is still a good rating..." Yada, yada, yada...

So I'm considering canceling our store. If that's the way eBay is going to treat the people who are helping them to make their miilions...well :nono:

Anyways, now that that's off my chest, what do you all think?



Scott

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Screw-um

I hate shopping on e-bay and I will never sell thoguh them. I'd see what percentage of your sales are atually brought to you through the e-bay system and how many people would have found you through other sources like this board. I'll shop your store wherever it is on the internet, e-bay is no attraction to me.

If your online activities generate more sales than e-bays on your behalf kiss them off they don't deserve your patronage, or anyone else's.

All good points, thank you. That's why I posted, I knew I'd get a wide variety of opinions. Our pride isn't hurt, I think it's just the principle of the thing that got to me, but I'm over that already. Yes it seems a lot of sellers are moving out, but we are staying, at least for now. There is a baby (low overhead, huge customer exposure) in all that dirty bath water after all.


Scott

Frankly I buy very little on ebay these days - never bought serious volume to begin with, but these days if I buy more than one thing a month it's a big month. That said, when examining a buyer, I generally treat all sellers over 95% feedback as implicitly trustworthy. I've heard enough stories about unreasonable buyers to know better than to worry about a ding or two. Sellers under 95% feedback I then review indiviual feedback for details and resolution. I'll also adjust my max bid taking into account any possible risk due to inaccurate descriptions, high shipping fees, what-have-you.

To me, e-bay is a bit like dancing. Choose your partners carefully, and you'll have no bruises or regrets afterwards.

An interesting read somtimes are the discussion groups at ebay. The feedback one right now is buzzing. Sellers are already reporting some buyers asking for partial refunds as items were not quite what they wanted and threatening bad feedback. Many of the posters are guys that till this week had 100%, now are getting a few negs. I realize this is not the normal buyer but a chance to blackmail brings out just that type.

Of course many sellers now are retaliating by refusing to leave any further feedback at all, no positive, no "nuthin".

Looks like both sides over reacting to the changes.

Tony

Recently I left feedback for something I had bought from ebay (ps3 controller was a fake which was funny since I didnt look closely enough at the item description or the picture :D) I left positive feedback but just as i chose to leave positive feedback I got a message saying that sellers cant leave negative feedback now! This was in the UK version of ebay. Is this the same for the US?

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

An interesting read somtimes are the discussion groups at ebay. The feedback one right now is buzzing. Sellers are already reporting some buyers asking for partial refunds as items were not quite what they wanted and threatening bad feedback. Many of the posters are guys that till this week had 100%, now are getting a few negs. I realize this is not the normal buyer but a chance to blackmail brings out just that type.

Of course many sellers now are retaliating by refusing to leave any further feedback at all, no positive, no "nuthin".

Looks like both sides over reacting to the changes.

Tony

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Actually the blackmail sounds like unscrupulous people taking advantage of a huge hole in the system, and since that hole was deliberatly created...... I couldn't blame the sellers one bit.


How do you guys all feel about the people who leave a negative comment but do "positive" feedback? I've taken to reading through the feedbacks the last year just looking for this and its amazing how many 100% sellers actually have a bunch of POED people in their feedback sections. You can see which sellers used their feedback power as a club. Still like a club I think it was an important tool for sellers that could be misused by the few, the current change can't be misused by them because it is inherently a mistake

I bought only a few small items on ebay, which didn't need bigger package than bubble protected envelope.

Usually, as shipping is concerned, I look at the stamps to see if the amount is fairly the same as the one asked for shipping and handling (I understand perfectly that, given the item and the quality of the package, the latter could be higher) and when the package has been posted (if nothing was said about delay, I usually think that two to three working days is a correct time to wait for somebody to send such small items). Actually, I never had any issues with a seller concerning the shipping and handling fee and time (maybe I've only bought from honest sellers). :tu

Concerning the feedbacks: I think it is correct for the seller to wait until the bidder says in an email or via feedback if he is happy or not, or asks for a refund, before giving his feedback; but I must say that I was very happy to see that one seller didn't wait for me to leave my feedback before saying that he enjoyed making business with me (I also like to be trusted, as much as a seller does I think).

As for the %... usually, if I see a seller with 95% and up, I believe that he is a honest and good seller (you will always find unhappy or difficult buyers leaving bad feedbacks, or a problem can ever occur... nobody's perfect). If a seller has less %, I go and read the detailed feedback to see what is the problem (if it is mainly for shipping time, I usually ignore them... I sooo much know how crap can the postal service be... one time, I had to wait two months for a book shipped on time in the US: it was lost, get hold in the customs... a nightmare)... Usually, what I am careful to look at in the feedback left by other buyers are that the items matched their description, and that the contact with the seller is easy and civilised.

I must say that I am happy I always could give positive feedback to all sellers I've made business with

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

How do you guys all feel about the people who leave a negative comment but do "positive" feedback?

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I feel like those buyers (in my experience only buyers do that) are simply intimidated. Really though, I don't know why because it's a lot easier to pass over a seller with negative ratings than it is to deny a bidder because of negative ratings. Why should a buyer be afraid of retaliatory feedback? He or she may not want it, but that shouldn't even discourage him or her at all from being honest

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

An interesting read somtimes are the discussion groups at ebay. The feedback one right now is buzzing. Sellers are already reporting some buyers asking for partial refunds as items were not quite what they wanted and threatening bad feedback. Many of the posters are guys that till this week had 100%, now are getting a few negs. I realize this is not the normal buyer but a chance to blackmail brings out just that type.

Of course many sellers now are retaliating by refusing to leave any further feedback at all, no positive, no "nuthin".

Looks like both sides over reacting to the changes.

Tony

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Hey Tony. I actually wouldn't call this over-reaction, but rather the new state of affairs. Each rule creates a kind of equilibrium, and the new equilibrium is that some of these wierd buyers are no longer restrained. Expect this behavior to continue.

In fact, it will probably be a lot harder for buyers to garner feedback in the future.

However, if most buyers are like me, it isn't important. I have no interest in my feedback rating as a buyer as long as it doesn't hurt my ability to participate in auctions, and it is a rare auction that requires a huge amount of buyer feedback to participate.

Negative feedback is another matter.

Being an occasional seller and having 1,100 + positives and no negatives I am somewhat concerned. OTOH, ebay says that a buyer must wait 7 days or so once they submit the negative to confirm it. They must contact the seller first to try to come to a satisfactory resolution. Last but not least ebay says they will look at the circumstances if the seller protests the negative and remove it if it is proved to be unjustified. In addition they say that they will begin a new policy of disciplining non paying bidders so it remains to be seen and only time will tell.

I can see both sides of the system. I've had two negative experiences with sellers so far - one sending out a wrong item, didn't respond to mails, I sent back the item asking for a refund (they included a form for shipping items back and gave the option of giving my money back!) because I needed the item ASAP and it was an international deal. No money, three weeks later (shipping was only to/from Germany) I got the replacement item - seller didn't respond to mails. Also had a second similar experience. When it came to rate the seller I found out that both sellers gave back negative feedback to their customers once they left negative feedback.

So, what to do in this case? Give a (justified) negative to warn other customers and receive one back for not having done anything wrong? I chose the easier way and didn't rate the deals at all. With the new system I can give a justified negative without having to worry about getting one back.

But I can see the problems from the perspective of the sellers too and have decided against using ebay for selling stuff until they come up with a better solution.

As a buyer I have gone over to always reading the last 200 feedback-entries of a seller and not relying on a 99+%-feedback score alone.

I've given less than positive descriptions for positive feedbacks before. It wasn't related to any sort of seller intimidation. There's two parts to the feedback (well, more because of the star system): the comment and the rating. For me, the rating is a matter of whether or not the transaction was reasonable: i.e. was the item as described, did it arrive safely and in a reasonable amount of time.

I have left positive feedback and commented that I found the communication frustrating, or noting that someone's shipping policy was less than ideal (not a shipping price, but one in particular had a once-a-month trip to the post office). That said, as long as everything showed up, I'm fine. The only time I have left a negative feedback was when my item never arrived. I've never left a neutral, I'm not sure what it means.

Maybe I'm not the standard ebay user, though. I've seen people leave negative feedback based on shipping costs which are posted in the seller's item descriptions. Shipping is part of the total cost: if I'm willing to spend $100 on something and the seller charges $10 shipping, I bid $90. If the seller ships free, I bid $100. That's basic economics. People who complain that they don't like the price they agreed to pay shouldn't be allowed to leave feedback.

As for the original controversy: I check every seller's last six months; I never look at their percentage.

Just left Feedback for an item I bought on eBay Belgium and before I could, a window appeared that stated that Sellers weren't able to give Negative or Neutral Feedback anymore :D

At last I can issue Negative (or Neutral) Feedback if and only when I'm truly not satisfied with a Seller without the fear of getting hit with Negative Feedback in return.