Sellers can't leave buyers negative feedback, but they can ban

That's right, I have been banned from buying from a particular seller. Here's what happened.

I won a razor in an auction that ended on a Sunday. The shipping fee listed was $5.
The following Tuesday (a week and two days later), I messaged the seller, asking if the razor had been shipped and via what method. I also asked for tracking information if there was any.
Wednesday (the next day) I received a message saying that the buyer thought it had been shipped the previous Saturday, and the seller was surprised it had not arrived. Note the lack of information I requested. But the razor also arrived that day.

So I left positive feedback. I mentioned that shipping was overcharged (the envelope it arrived in said $1.51) and that shipping was delayed, but that the razor arrived as described.

Subsequently, I received a message from the seller asking why I bid knowing that was the shipping charge, why I said the shipping charge was too high, and why I said the shipping was delayed (the seller seemed to thing that receiving an item within ten days was satisfactory). The seller asked if I thought I was being fair and remarked that he/she was glad I didn't leave a negative feedback, since the stars affect his/her fees.

I responded. I noted the difference in the actual shipping charges and what I was charged. I mentioned that I assumed the razor would be shipped in a manner that spent the $5, such as a box, or with more protection that would cost more money (padded envelope and a little bubble wrap were used). I commented that a I considered shipping an item five business days after an auction ends to be slow shipping. I mentioned that I wanted to make sure my feedback reflected my experience, and I tried my best with the limited number of characters ebay allows.

I received another message from the seller. He/she remarked that expecting to pay actual shipping charges is unreasonable because gas and time are not free where he/she lives. He/she asked if they were free where I live. I was informed that receiving items within ten days was good, and that I could expect to be leaving a lot of negatives if I expected items faster. The seller said that he/she thought my comments were unwarranted and that he/she would have asked me not to bid on his/her items. But he/she thought that is was not a fair person, so he/she banned me from bidding on his/her items. The seller said I should not have bid if I thought $5 for shipping was too high, and concluded by wishing me good luck.


I must say, I was rather taken aback. Regarding the shipping costs, I expected to get what I was paying for, but the seller did not come through on that point. The seller also took a whole week to ship the item, which is unacceptable to me. I've shipped many razors, and I always have them out the day after I receive payment unless there is some serious reason I cannot do so. I notify buyers when I expect to have razors shipped, and again when I actually ship them.
I'm also not sure why the seller thought I was being unfair. It's not as if I left negative feedback without explaining myself. I didn't even leave negative feedback; it was positive! (Though looking back on it, neutral would have probably been more accurate, and after his/her responses I wish I could change it to negative.) I posted about the transaction as I thought it occurred and explained myself in response to the seller's questions. Based on the seller's response, I don't think he/she paid much attention to what I said; his/her response disregarded my attempts to explain my feedback and was unnecessarily sarcastic. On top of that, I've never heard of banning an ebay member from bidding on auctions.


Had this transaction occurred on SRP, or any other forum I have bought/sold items on, I would promptly contact the moderators. Seeing as this is ebay and I'll likely never even want to buy from this seller again, it's really not worth it. Should any of you want to know this seller's account name, I will provide it via PM. I don't want to trash anyone's reputation, but I believe the truth should be known. This seller clearly has low expectations and does not understand the point of feedback.

Banning has been an option for sellers for several years at eBay. I've used it a couple of times. It can make things so much easier. You could try contacting the better business bureau if it's a legitimate gripe that you want to put out there for moderation :) It's more of a business ethics thing than anything else though, I don't think the seller is breaking ebay policy there

Yeah, I'm not really concerned by the ban; I was mostly surprised because I didn't know it was an option and I really don't think the seller had reason to ban me. All I did was leave honest feedback.

I agree with the seller

What a bummer! I think that the seller's reaction was definitely unreasonable. That said, I don't agree with you about the shipping charge in the sense that the seller sets the charge to what he wants and you know that upfront and just have to accept it, or not, but not demand that it be accounted for. All in all, the seller is an absolute idiot.

I think the seller had a valid point with the $5 shipping. You knew what it was upfront prior to bidding. Sadly, using the cheapest supplies possible is very common on ebay. I expressly state that I ship using USPS priority and a BOX in my auctions so at least you know it's protected.

I agree with you on the time to ship though. 5 business days is really too much. 1-3 I can live with. 5 is excessive unless they state that they only ship out on ______ (Friday for example). Then in that case you knew the shipping time frame also prior to bidding.

It's too bad that the seller banned you and also too bad that it took IMO an unreasonable amount of time for you to receive the item.

Regarding the shipping; the actual shipping cost and the shipping charge a seller assesses on Ebay are two totally different things. Should they be? To a point, possibly. But nonetheless, the seller can set shipping fees of $50 and ship something using a .42 cent stamp if the item fits and as long as the seller states the $50 fee in the listing......that's the shipping cost.

I have decided NOT to bid on many an item because the seller's shipping fees IMO were either too excessive or even ridiculous.

So, my two cents, given the seller's shipping was listed with the item, I don't think you can fault the seller for that. I can agree with the seller's argument about gas/time/packaging to a point.


Chris L

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Had this transaction occurred on SRP, or any other forum I have bought/sold items on, I would promptly contact the moderators.

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We've had this before, but we try to get the seller and the buyer to sort it out amongst themselves.
We do not get involved, other than as neutral mediators. We will not take action unless one of the parties has done something that is against the site rules and we have clear proof (i.e SPAM or things like that).

We provide a place where transactions can occurr, but we do not become part of the transaction process. The reason is that it would make us liable in case of problems, and it could bring all sorts of legal troubles to SRP if we would become an active party.

We are also not a legal arbiter, so we cannot judge on who is right or who is wrong. Only a civil court can do that. Suppose we ban someone from using the classifieds because we are convinced he defrauded someone, but we are wrong. Then that person could sue SRP for defamation of character (did I say that right?). So we cannot do that either.

The only thing we can do is to get people to talk to each other, and if someone does something that is against site rules, we can take action. But other than that, our hands are tied. They have to be if we don't want to risk SRP.

EDIT: 3000 :y

It's not just E bay.

Amazon deal with some bad guys.

You really must read the feedback and be warned if you see any negativity. It usually mans a customer was really ****ed off.

To be honest, I don't enjoy spending money today. There seems to be a lot less integrity out there now days.

Bad or dishonest descriptions. False photography. Overpricing on postage. etc.,etc.,

If you sense any lack of integrity listen to your senses and back off the purchase. Your senses will be correct.

Just remember the golden rule........"Let the buyer beware".

The fact is on Eboy many sellers use shipping as an alternative to increase their profit. I would rather they be upfront and say I'm charging 4x the shipping cost to make more money. personally I think if they want to add fees thats fine, they can do it but to charge $10 to ship a razor when it costs $2.00 and they try and justify is is garbage. In the end you just don't bid on those auctions. if enough people do that they will get the message when they realize they are getting fewer bids which will cost more than what they make in shipping fees and then the fees will come down.

I try to avoid ebay entirely but I confess that I occasionally do succumb. However, I have completely given up on feedback. Too many times I have received retaliatory negative feedback in response to my honest usually neutral feedback.
I have received negative feedback for declaring with neutral feedback that a seller sold me a trumpet mouthpiece that was so crushed as to make it unusable. His defense was that he didn't think it would cost very much to make it round again. I received negative feedback for pointing out with neutral feedback that a wind up clock, that I specifically asked if it worked, did not work at all but according to her it did in fact wind! I received negative feedback for pointing out with negative feedback that what was listed as a straight razor case was in fact a cutlery case that did not remotely match the listed dimensions and did not work for straight razors.
I believe that so many people have been too afraid to give honest feedback in fear of retaliatory feedback that the feedback scores on ebay are meaningless. For that reason, I no longer participate in it.

PS. I have only been banned once. That was for informing a seller, NOT through feedback but instead personal communication, that the black thong she sold my wife lost ALL of its black coloring the first time it was hand washed in cold water with Woolite in the sink. I actually liked it better with its new silver color but I thought the seller should be informed of the color instability of her product. I was not angry. I did not complain or ask for a refund. Her response was to call me a liar and to ban me. It didn't exactly hurt my feelings but it did cause me to leave her neutral feedback. Of course she responded with negative feedback!

Regardless of what is expected, if the seller doesn't explicitly state it, then they're not at fault. Shipping charges are clearly stated for most auctions. If they aren't, you can simply ask the seller before bidding. It's an established fact when buying on eBay, you may be overcharged for shipping. At this point, it really shouldn't be an issue. If for some reason a seller's stated cost and actual cost are wholly different, then you can send in a complaint to eBay. I don't know what they do about it but I've done it many times.

I believe a 5-day wait to be too long. I would've commented on that as well. When sellers create a listing, there's an option that allows them to say within how many days after receiving payment that they'll ship the item. I always say within 2 days. Of course, some sellers never include that information. At that point, you're really just hoping the seller is reasonable.

I saw this thread today after getting reamed(in my opinion) on ebay today. I bought a PDA that was described as used but "Great Condition"

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You are bidding on a, "PALM ZIRE 71 PDA - LIKE NEW CONDITION!! ". This item is used but in like new condition. It comes with all of it's original accessories..

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PALM ZIRE 71 PDA - GREAT CONDITION!! - eBay (item 330257832745 end time Aug-06-08 20:01:40 PDT)

It indeed looks great, but it won't charge and dies everytime I try and take it off the charger. In fact it resets everytime I try and take it off the charger because the battery is so bad it won't even hold the settings. I have a Zire 71 with a broken screen so I will keep this and use my old battery. The whole thing is very annoying and swapping batteries in a Zire is a real pain.

Well I think the expectations for shipping at cost are a bit unrealistic. Why would a seller do that - their time costs money and they have to pay for the gas if they aren't smart enough to have the carrier pick up for free? As long as the shipping charges are stated ahead of time, that is fine - you should set your max bid by subtracting the stated shipping charges from the max price you are willing to pay.
Now, unreasonable packaging is a whole other issue. It doesn't take much to ship a razor properly protected. I'm often annoyed by getting a big cardbox stuffed with paper and a razor in the middle - forces parcel post which is much slower than 1st class, but it's infinitely better than razors rattling in unpaded envelope.

The fact that we here don't value our time and charge shipping at cost doesn't mean that we should have the same expectation of everybody. It is shipping&handling charge afterall.
5 days to shipment is on the long side, but I personally will live with it, put it in their detailed ratings but not state it explicitly in the feedback. For example when I purchase books from amazon.com or most other places, I have several shipping options and when i choose the free one I often notice significant delay in processing - often up to a week. This is just normal. Many merchants offer expediated processing for additional fee. That's just common business sense - it costs more to do it so the customers who are willing pay for the better service should get just that, and those who prefer the low cost crappier service are also free to have their choice.

Incidentally recently I had a dispute with a seller over shipping. The problem was that the razor was significantly not as described - large chip and serious rust on the edge on the side w/o pictures were ignored and described as excellent condition with light tarnish.
The seller agreed to take it back, but won't refund the shipping costs which included $6 or so in handling fees. I was happy to pay the costs when I bid on the razor, but not when I don't get a razor. My time is worth far more than this, but since it was a matter of principle I filed a chargeback and won it. I was nice and covered the return tracked shipping, as it was partially my fault for bidding w/o seeing the reverse side of the razor.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

The fact is on Eboy many sellers use shipping as an alternative to increase their profit. I would rather they be upfront and say I'm charging 4x the shipping cost to make more money. personally I think if they want to add fees thats fine, they can do it but to charge $10 to ship a razor when it costs $2.00 and they try and justify is is garbage. In the end you just don't bid on those auctions. if enough people do that they will get the message when they realize they are getting fewer bids which will cost more than what they make in shipping fees and then the fees will come down.

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I agree totally with this post. I find that some shipping charges are just a joke. I realise that some people use e bay to run a buisiness, personally I use e bay for fun and don't mind paying REASONABLE charges. Recenently I bought an Iwasaki off a guy on SRP (sorry if I beat you guys to it...:D), paid $12 S&H from the USA to the UK. Actual cost of shipping about $5-$6, it took less than a week to cross the Atlantic. It was very well packaged with plenty of protection - this I class as reasonable...!!, in fact great....

In a nutshell, why not be fair? I have lost out on S&H on some of the items I've sold (my fault, yes:o), but then if it has made someone's day that's fine by me.

Just my two penneth (2 cents worth..... ;)).

best wishes,

Mark.....
(Wales, U.K.)

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

He/she remarked that expecting to pay actual shipping charges is unreasonable because gas and time are not free where he/she lives. He/she asked if they were free where I live. I was informed that receiving items within ten days was good, and that I could expect to be leaving a lot of negatives if I expected items faster. The seller said that he/she thought my comments were unwarranted and that he/she would have asked me not to bid on his/her items.

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I would suggest using quite a bit of Barbicide and maybe an autoclave if you buy a razor from a he/she. Never know what they might have shaved with that thing. :eek:

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Originally Posted by kelbro

I would suggest using quite a bit of Barbicide and maybe an autoclave if you buy a razor from a he/she. Never know what they might have shaved with that thing. :eek:

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I guess I could have written (s)he. I mean, I do know the gender of she seller, but when commenting about others in a negative fashion and in a public forum, I try not to give any information away. That is why I offered to PM the username if anyone wants to know but didn't state it in my posts.

I hear what you guys are saying about how sellers can charge whatever they want to ship. I do agree, that is fine. But I would have preferred if the ad had said "Shipping will cost $5, but I'm going to ship in a padded envelope with a little bubble wrap. I will not ship in a box."

I saw this while looking through feedback today..I must be sick because this sounds so funny to me..

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INQUIRED ON SHIPPING,,,SELLER FLIPPED OUT,,,,BAD ATTITUDE,,, F-


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Reply by t********r (Aug-07-08 12:26):
YOU ARE JUST A MORON NO BODY SHOULD SHOULD BUY OR SELL ANYTHING WITH YOU

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In defense of the seller, this is his only negative feedback in the last 12 months.

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Originally Posted by Traveller

I agree with the seller

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As do I.

1) You knew what the charges were.
2) There was no agreement as to when it was to be shipped
3) within 5 buisiness days really isn't all that bad. (bear in mind that most people on e-bay aren't fulltime sellers and have lives to run next to what they doon e-bay)

And yes, she overcharged you, and yes, she shouldn't have whined about your semi-positive feedback.

But on the other hand....I don't see a lot of reason for you to complain either.

I agree with the seller, and with what LX Emergency wrote - it's just common sense.

In all honesty, $5 is not an unreasonable shipping charge for a small-time seller and she was upfront about them. Had she charged you $10+, it would have been a different story, but even then you can always choose not to buy.
Ebay also has a secondary feedback system where you can mark the shipping charges as unreasonable and explain why you think the seller is gouging to e-bay. If the seller is really ripping people off in a ploy to reduce their cut to e-bay, they'll take action against him/her.

I just wanted to clarify. It's not that I think $5 is too high for shipping. I just thought that I'd get my $5 worth. I expected a bit more than a padded envelope and a little bubble wrap.

That's how I've shipped quite a few razors and other items without any issues. Had it been packaged differently, just the postage would have run over $5, so you'd have been paying $10 for shipping.

You could have also just given a normal feedback but lowered the individual 'stars' feedback. That's mostly what I do since I don't want to start a whole feedback issue/argument/e-mail conversation with the seller.