argh...advice needed

warning...this is kind of long...
so i bought a couple coti's together that were advertised "look like new...excellent condition, will satisfy you 100%". seller put them in a box together, no padding, threw them in a bubble wrap envelope and shipped them from Greece. got them...one of them had a small crack that wouldn't effect anything...the other was in worse shape...here is the email back and forth once i told him there was a problem:

me:
Here are some photos to show what I am talking about...The larger stone is fine and I am totally happy with that and the slurry stone...but as you can see from the smaller stone, it took some damage in the trip over from Greece.

I'm not sure if I used the right word when I said separation...as you can see, it is in two pieces, which isn't the biggest problem, I'm sure I can figure out how to get it back together...but as you can see in the second photo, there are two sizable chips and a crack the entire length of the stone (it's the crack on the left side in the picture). It would definitely effect honing as I can feel it significantly with my finger. I understand this was a good deal...I suppose from the ebay ad I was expecting "looking like new, excellent condition". And I realize this probably happened in the mail...I’m just not sure what to do now as the smaller stone isn't really fit for anything other than being cut up and turned into slurry stones. I know you paid a lot more for these stones, but I would also be willing to bet if you got the smaller stone in this condition you wouldn't have spent anything on it...

seller:
i now realize the serious damage that occurred to the small stone and i assure you that this happend during the mail.In my hands was in perfect condition and that is for sure.Maybe i should pack them with a softer enclosure to prevent this damage but as you can see they are in a wooden box tight together.I believe that the biger stone will cover your needs in honing your razors with no any problems.Please don't forget to leave a feedback.

me:
Yeah, I figured it happened in shipping...There was space between the stones and the top of the box, so it kept hitting the top of the wood box.

I guess my problem is, I paid $110 expecting to have two usable stones and now I have one. I would not have bid on the stones if it was just the one. So I was thinking we could do one of two things...either you can refund me a partial amount...say $20 to make up for the damaged stone, or I can just send you the stones back and get a refund of my $110. I'm not trying to be difficult, but this isn't what I paid for.


seller:
i am sorry for that but i can't deal with any of this two proposes you mentioned.It is not my fault if someone in the mail didn't do his job propertly.Thank you for your understanding.

me:
Again, not trying to be difficult, but I don't see how it is my fault either, especially considering I didn't even pack the item, it doesn't seem particularly fair that I would end up being the only one who loses out in this situation.


I would rather not take this to the eBay resolution center and get my money back that way, but if you are completely unwilling I suppose you don't leave many other options. I'm sure if the situation were reversed, you would be equally unhappy with half of what you paid for arriving broken and unusable. I'm sure you see where I am coming from.

seller:
i can't help you farther more do what you think is best for you.

so, as you can see...i'm in a bit of a fix now. anyone have any experience with something like this? if i go through the resolution center, they will want me to send it back to him with a delivery confirmation, but unless i'm wrong, there's not a delivery confirmation process to send to Greece that wouldn't cost as much as what I paid for the item in the first place...

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I'd see what eBay can do for an international sale like this. From there, I guess it's just negative feedback.

This is the big complication with oversees eBay transactions. I'm sure most go as planned, but when there is an issue, the shipping costs to resolve it seem almost counterproductive.

Good luck!

I had a similar experience. I bought some 78RPM records a few years ago and they were the Shellac type-very fragile and the seller put the album with 10 records in a box and some padding around the album but the records moved around within the album during shipping and when I opened the box I had a pile of hard shellac. This was after I specifically told the seller to ensure they were properly packed and the seller told me not to tell her, her business. We went back and forth but when threatened with bad feedback she refunded my money.

It's the sellers responsibility to ensure the mdse is properly packed especially for overseas delivery. Unless the thing received unusually bad treatment in transit he should make good on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I had a similar experience. I bought some 78RPM records a few years ago and they were the Shellac type-very fragile and the seller put the album with 10 records in a box and some padding around the album but the records moved around within the album during shipping and when I opened the box I had a pile of hard shellac. This was after I specifically told the seller to ensure they were properly packed and the seller told me not to tell her, her business. We went back and forth but when threatened with bad feedback she refunded my money.

It's the sellers responsibility to ensure the mdse is properly packed especially for overseas delivery. Unless the thing received unusually bad treatment in transit he should make good on it.

---

yeah, i was trying to just keep cool and be polite...but it appears the threat of resolution center, bad feedback, whathaveyou is not dissuading this guy one little bit. i thought $20 so we could share the misfortune was more than fair...

Did you use PP???

If so, just file a claim with them when you file with e-bay

g

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Did you use PP???

If so, just file a claim with them when you file with e-bay

g

---

i did, but wouldn't they require me to ship them back using delivery confirmation...so express mail, ups, or fedex to greece, which would cost as much/more than the stones? i sent a vinyl record to milan using fedex and it cost $100...and was a lot lighter than these...

I had an issue like this VERY recently from Italy. It started in Nov. after ebay and paypal telling me to send it back to him the way it was sent to me. Two razors etc. long story short and about 20 emails and 10 phone calls to ebay. they also "investigated" it. They closed the case and refused to refund my money as the seller would not confirm receiving it. I had to go to my bank and dispute it last week. now paypal is threatening action against me. Crazy!!
Paul

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

I had an issue like this VERY recently from Italy. It started in Nov. after ebay and paypal telling me to send it back to him the way it was sent to me. Two razors etc. long story short and about 20 emails and 10 phone calls to ebay. they also "investigated" it. They closed the case and refused to refund my money as the seller would not confirm receiving it. I had to go to my bank and dispute it last week. now paypal is threatening action against me. Crazy!!
Paul

---

this story makes me think negative feedback alone may be the way to go here...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

I had an issue like this VERY recently from Italy. It started in Nov. after ebay and paypal telling me to send it back to him the way it was sent to me. Two razors etc. long story short and about 20 emails and 10 phone calls to ebay. they also "investigated" it. They closed the case and refused to refund my money as the seller would not confirm receiving it. I had to go to my bank and dispute it last week. now paypal is threatening action against me. Crazy!!
Paul

---

If you read the PayPal Protection Policy you'll find it's much like "The Emperor's New Clothes " :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

If you read the PayPal Protection Policy you'll find it's much like "The Emperor's New Clothes " :p

---

So the moral of the story is...at least I'm not naked in addition to being ripped off.

I'd file a claim with paypal and get help from Ebay resolution center.

Greece's economy is in bad shape and this guy probably already spent the cash. It's his fault for not packing the items properly, but obviously he didn't care.

I'd leave negative feedback with as much detail as they let you. At least this way somebody else will be for warned before dealing with this guy.

I hate to say it but, that's why I only deal with first world countries when dealing overseas; i.e., Deutschland, Gr. Briton, Scandinavia, etc. You get my meaning. And whomever, wishes to argue that greece is a first world country...well, you'd be a fool too, especially with all the agony they recently put the world through.

Can you post pictures of the stones e.g. before and after?

I don't think $20 would cover the damage, I would return it for a refund. It's his fault for not wrapping the item properly.

Aren't there any cheaper solutions for registered parcels from the US? You could send it as registered mail. Wrap the stones individually and then tape them to a piece of cardboard, make sure to leave some space on the edges.

Are the broken pieces big enough to use as small hones? If not hones, could they be used as slurry stones? I would think you could recoup some money selling them.

I would leave negative feedback for the seller at a minimum. It's the sellers responsibility to properly pack items. I'm a fan of double boxing any fragile item, especially if theres more than one item in a package.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Piet

Can you post pictures of the stones e.g. before and after?

I don't think $20 would cover the damage, I would return it for a refund. It's his fault for not wrapping the item properly.

Aren't there any cheaper solutions for registered parcels from the US? You could send it as registered mail. Wrap the stones individually and then tape them to a piece of cardboard, make sure to leave some space on the edges.

---

Well, here is the original auction photos/description:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=160747358376

And I think I just uploaded a photo. It's completely detached from the slate/schist...which I can fix with some gorilla glue...but the chips to the end and the noticeable feeling crack the length of the stone...MAYBE I can lap it down and it would be usable...but it's certainly not "like new".

The $20 isn't enough to fix it...But considering the other stone is ok...and while yes, he was careless with shipping, that was just the number I threw out where I wouldn't feel so bad about this...and both parties can walk away not totally satisfied, but at least somewhat...

And unfortunately for delivery confirmation...all the options are expensive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cflaageriv

I hate to say it but, that's why I only deal with first world countries when dealing overseas; i.e., Deutschland, Gr. Briton, Scandinavia, etc. You get my meaning. And whomever, wishes to argue that greece is a first world country...well, you'd be a fool too, especially with all the agony they recently put the world through.

---

On one hand, I totally agree...on the other hand...I've got a lot of friends in Romania (not exactly first world) and spent some time there...so I struggle with making sweeping judgements. But you're right...better safe than sorry.

It looks like those 2 cracks were are already there before shipping. The chips in the end can be sanded smooth. Considering the size of the stones and what you paid it may be best to keep it and just leave negative or bad feedback.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Piet

It looks like those 2 cracks were are already there before shipping. The chips in the end can be sanded smooth. Considering the size of the stones and what you paid it may be best to keep it and just leave negative or bad feedback.

---

Strangely only the one on the left seems "cracked"...the other just seems like some kind of inclusion...but yeah, either way, not like new.

I am thinking that is what I will do. Thanks fellas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

If you read the PayPal Protection Policy you'll find it's much like "The Emperor's New Clothes " :p

---

Agreed. EBAY protection policy is a joke

ebay policy is, in my opinion, "convoluted" and self promoting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ryanjewell

seller:
i am sorry for that but i can't deal with any of this two proposes you mentioned.It is not my fault if someone in the mail didn't do his job propertly.Thank you for your understanding.

---

Here's where the seller is completely wrong. It is his responsibility to deliver the goods in the described condition. Those are simply the rules, and he has agreed to abide by them as a condition to using ebay.

So, what you should do is dispute it with ebay. They will evaluate the situation, but given that the seller is in the wrong about their policy and has misrepresented it, and has admitted that you have not gotten what he promised in his listing in writing you already have a huge advantage. Ebay will 99.9% rule in your favor (the seller already agreed that you received them damaged, and not as described, and you should include all this information in the dispute). They may require you to ship back the stones if you want your refund (you can decide not to do so if it's too expensive but you'll be no worse than at the moment). They may just take the $20 from the seller and give it to you, or they may decide give you the $20 from their own pocket just to make you happy.

In any case your proper course of action is dispute through ebay, not paypal, and when that's concluded you're likely to get something, and if you don't you've wasted less time than writing and following up this thread :)

And yes, the ebay and paypal protection coverage is a complete joke, but in a lot of cases like yours you'll probably get some benefit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cflaageriv

I hate to say it but, that's why I only deal with first world countries when dealing overseas; i.e., Deutschland, Gr. Briton, Scandinavia, etc. You get my meaning. And whomever, wishes to argue that greece is a first world country...well, you'd be a fool too, especially with all the agony they recently put the world through.

---

Yeah, I can almost picture you on a white horse...

I honestly apologize to the OP for the off-topic, but this is just the kind of wording which makes me kinda happy for not living in a "first world" country...

Agony they put the world through?? What particular agony did you experience because of Greece? Wasn't the mindless greed of some first world countries citizens responsible for this wonderful "crysis" phenomenon? Do you really believe that you'll be excerpt of any trouble by only dealing with that select list of yours? Good luck... FYI, the only time I got shafted on the bay was when dealing with some lad in California, which is first world, isn't it.

Now excuse me while I climb back in my tree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by algernon

Yeah, I can almost picture you on a white horse...

I honestly apologize to the OP for the off-topic, but this is just the kind of wording which makes me kinda happy for not living in a "first world" country...

Agony they put the world through?? What particular agony did you experience because of Greece? Wasn't the mindless greed of some first world countries citizens responsible for this wonderful "crysis" phenomenon? Do you really believe that you'll be excerpt of any trouble by only dealing with that select list of yours? Good luck... FYI, the only time I got shafted on the bay was when dealing with some lad in California, which is first world, isn't it.

Now excuse me while I climb back in my tree.

---

nici o problema, algernon...eu inteleg...

Just remember everyone has different experiences, gets their information filtered through different perspectives...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gugi

Here's where the seller is completely wrong. It is his responsibility to deliver the goods in the described condition. Those are simply the rules, and he has agreed to abide by them as a condition to using ebay.

So, what you should do is dispute it with ebay. They will evaluate the situation, but given that the seller is in the wrong about their policy and has misrepresented it, and has admitted that you have not gotten what he promised in his listing in writing you already have a huge advantage. Ebay will 99.9% rule in your favor (the seller already agreed that you received them damaged, and not as described, and you should include all this information in the dispute). They may require you to ship back the stones if you want your refund (you can decide not to do so if it's too expensive but you'll be no worse than at the moment). They may just take the $20 from the seller and give it to you, or they may decide give you the $20 from their own pocket just to make you happy.

In any case your proper course of action is dispute through ebay, not paypal, and when that's concluded you're likely to get something, and if you don't you've wasted less time than writing and following up this thread :)

And yes, the ebay and paypal protection coverage is a complete joke, but in a lot of cases like yours you'll probably get some benefit.

---

Good point. Even if they don't give me anything and it's too expensive to ship, at least they will have something on record about this guy.

and the final update:

bad news, as i suspected, they wanted me to send the stones back and it was more worth it to keep them than send them back, so negative feedback was left.

good news...after a lot of work and super gluing my fingers together, i actually repaired the damage and it surprisingly works quite nicely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ryanjewell

i did, but wouldn't they require me to ship them back using delivery confirmation...so express mail, ups, or fedex to greece, which would cost as much/more than the stones? i sent a vinyl record to milan using fedex and it cost $100...and was a lot lighter than these...

---

Nope. Don't hesiitate to open dispute resolution. They will work for you, ad it goes o rtprety quickly. We had a similar tale, and eBay and PayPal were AWESOME and GREAT to work with solving the problem. don't h sitate to call and talk to a rhuman as well.
good luck!

Sorry to hear it didn't work out in your favour. I have never encoured a problem yet with ebay and paypal from overseas but I have had a few problems with items in north america and everything got dealt with real quick and i was refunded in full. Hope your stone is okay now

File a claim and leave negative feedback. Paypal should side with you since the seller is unwilling to work it out. Good luck

Thanks all...I did go through the resolution center and they wanted me to return the stones (back to greece) and would then refund my money. It was cost prohibitive, so I just decided it wasn't worth it to pursue any further. I left negative feedback and fixed the stone, so all in all...it could have been much worse.

Well atleast it is all over now, sorry you had to deal with that. That is the problem with Ebay, they have to try to keep both sides happy so they keep making money off both...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gugi

And yes, the ebay and paypal protection coverage is a complete joke, but in a lot of cases like yours you'll probably get some benefit.

---

I've had the completely opposite experience. I've used Ebay for over 10 years. Only once did I get ripped. It was a $5 item and I didn't bother to dispute it.

I've had occasion to use the resolution center and I got my money back. Other times all it took was an Email to the seller and it was made right.

I must be good at picking sellers. I've only gotten one jerk and that is when I was a Noob.