Scammers and Cheaters

Being a moderator on this forum, unfortunately I see a lot of the worst in people. Here's the latest story, I thought I should share, so that hopefully more members learn to not fall prey to unscrupulous scammers.

There was a member who was one of the most active 'restorers' and 'experts' on one of the other forums. He posted here occasionally, but since this forum has always been about real expertise, he felt at home at another place, where he and others like him would pretend to be more than they were and take advantage of the lack of knowledge of the new guys.

Anyways, everybody is free to be themselves, as long as they remain civil.

So, about a year ago, said member posted some stuff for sale in the Classifieds here. Apparently one of our members bought $150-$200 of it and they arranged the payment to be done via 'personal paypal payment', to avoid the paypal fees.
Over a month later the items were still not shipped and there was no communication from the seller. So the buyer was screwed because he was nice and agreed to the 'personal paypal' which means that he told paypal "I'm just sending money and it is not to buy any goods".

Now, you would think that that would be the end of it, the buyer has learned his lesson, the seller has stollen $150-$200 from somebody and has moved on. But that is not the end of the story. Yesterday the seller comes back to SRP and lists a bunch of 'leftover washers'.
I removed his ad, and while I am composing the PM he lists again this time using slightly different options, then clicking on the 'I sold it' button. I removed that ad as well, and he tried few more times, my guess is he is wondering why is the system broken.
At this point I completed the PM and requested that he contact us with details of that transaction of the last year. As soon as he saw the PM he logged out and my guess is that he is not coming back.

Now, what is the moral of the story? There are few, but I would hope that you realize that we like to run SRP as an open forum, which means that plenty of jerks will continue trying to take advantage of others. So, it is best to use common sense and not bend over for people who you do not know. Then those scammers will have fewer chances to abuse you, and I will see less of the worst in people.

Wow, that dude had some cajones. I guess he figured enough time had passed and he could scam again. It's good to be vigilant and have a good memory.

I think sometimes we don't give the mods here enough credit. They do a lot to help. They also are gentle when one of us puts our foot in our mouth and makes a mistake if we didn't do it intentionally. (Been there)

I just want to say thanks to you and all the other mods we rely on. I realize that it's kind of a behind the scenes, thankless job that you all do because you love this site and the good that most bring to it. I understand how much time it takes and personal grief as well. I know you take a lot of s$#t at times for no reward. Please know that most of us out in cyber-land do realize the time you put in, and how it benefit us all.:beer2:

Thanks gugi for the professional moderation.

Thats garbage, people like that always end up getting what they deserve in the long run.

Seems like common sense to me not to go out of your way to make a seller avoid a fee, but hey I'm pretty pessimistic for a nice guy.

Its nice to know that the Mods here are active. I've been a member here for some time and have tried being active on forums for all sorts of hobbies. This is one of the few where the Mods are truly active in their duties and in replies to threads as well.

No, it is not a thankless job - at the end of it we get the best shaving forum out there :)

Also there is no problem with making a mistake, or having a lapse of judgment, we all have bad days and that's simply part of life. But unfortunately in small number of cases it is way beyond that. And then some of those people go to other forums boasting that they have been banned from SRP. I am actually amazed that most of the time they seem to be embraced as heroes who stood up to the 'evil SRP'. I'm happy to say that that's one thing that you will not find on this forum - we take the high road and would rather enjoy this hobby than badmouth others.

Just a thank you for your vigilance. It's nice to have people around that remember the past and can act on that memory.

Thank you Gugi,a job well done.

Gugi, my dear friend, well done. Well done, indeed.

It's a great world, packed with beautiful people, but also, sadly, with its share of warts.

Thank you for your outstanding service! We are appreciate it!
Maybe there is a reason to write name of this scammer? Maybe he use same eBay nickname. Everyone need to know their "heroes"

Gugi most certainly does a good job, but that doesn't mean you can relax. Don't make it easy for people - don't ever, ever purchase goods using "personal payment" paypal, even from people you think you know. If they are on the level, they will understand. Of course it is no guarantee, but at least there are buyer protection mechanisms in place in a "goods and services" paypal transaction - they might not be much, but they are better than the "none" you get with personal payments.

James.

What a scum bag! Ugh! Nice catch :)

Thanks Gugi, while I have not yet had the privilege of purchasing from the SRP classifieds, I appreciate that fact that you and the other moderators are doing what you can to ensure each and every experience here is edifying.

This is a great example why we all appreciate the Moderators on SRP. You all do a great job! Terrible how people try and scam others...

thanks a ton for sharing. It is too sad but unfortunatly it will always be in the world no matter what. I think that it is a great thing for us to have a feedback system on here. I only have made 1 transaction but got great feedback and now have someone who will vouche for my authenticity. Buyers should ALWAYS beware :)

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Originally Posted by gugi

No, it is not a thankless job - at the end of it we get the best shaving forum out there :)

Also there is no problem with making a mistake, or having a lapse of judgment, we all have bad days and that's simply part of life. But unfortunately in small number of cases it is way beyond that. And then some of those people go to other forums boasting that they have been banned from SRP. I am actually amazed that most of the time they seem to be embraced as heroes who stood up to the 'evil SRP'. I'm happy to say that that's one thing that you will not find on this forum - we take the high road and would rather enjoy this hobby than badmouth others.

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man I love SRP. I could care less to even type another forum into my browser. SRP is my one and only :)

Thanks and keep fighting the good fight, Mods! :D

Its funny cause I was surprised to even discover that "Shaving forum" was a thing that existed. Seriously, i was like "That's a thing?"

Then reading comments on a BruceOnShaving article I came to realize that not only was "Shaving forum" a thing...but "Shaving forum drama" was a thing. LOL! Seriously?! It'll be awhile before anything on the internet surprises and amuses me like that did.

This isn't as funny as that, but not un-surprising to see. If you're paying someone $200 via paypal, and they're balking about a couple dollar fee...that's a red flag. Anyway, nice Mod job. Thanks for looking out.

It seems that I'm one more SRP member who suffered from fraud on this forum.

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Originally Posted by Zelenbakh

It seems that I'm one more SRP member who suffered from fraud on this forum.

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Sorry to hear this, Alex. Indeed, I seem to be included as well. Perhaps this is more widespread than thought by the OP. I feel sharing info and names in some manner might be helpful in determining how far-reaching this is. If determined to be as I suspect, some sort of action might be initiated.
Whatsay, Gugi? Tom

You are right, we should do something. I have a feeling that not only we two suffered from different fraudulent restoration projects. As for myself, I lost quite a good sum of money. From my point of view we should unite all those who lost money on SRP projects. We can do this only through the forum. I'm sure something can be done.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Whatsay, Gugi? Tom

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It's not up to me, I'm just a lowly moderator. I only know what you guys tell me (plus few things I can see behind the scenes, like multiple accounts), and in almost all cases I treat it as confidential.

Have been lucky here I suppose,have always gotten refunded upon sending the item back no problem.
The only issues I have had were those of omissions in discriptions,heavy hone wear,is easy to take pics in a manner that masks it,resto work that was done and not admitted to in the initial posting,yet when the blade is returned than reposted,will be discribed as such,ask lots of questions prior to hitting the BIN button,can save alot of grief down the road.

While I understand that this is very upsetting and disappointing, I would like to point out that these things appear to very rare here. And while SRP provides the conduit and networking for people to get together, what one member decides to do to another member in a private transaction is completely out of any sort of SRP control. So I would be cautious claiming that anything was an "SRP project" when in fact it was a private transaction. In the end you as an individual need to take every step to protect yourself.

Please don't misunderstand me - I am not saying that the alleged fraud is the customer's fault. All I am saying is that these are personal transactions and I cannot see how SRP as an entity can or should get involved.

These are just my own personal opinions on the matter and should in no way be construed as necessarily being endorsed by, or reflective of, the official or unofficial views of SRP, its staff or sponsors.

James.

Tar and feather time. :)

They should get involved by making it as public as possible. Reputations need to reflect these kind of things.

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Originally Posted by Zelenbakh

You are right, we should do something. I have a feeling that not only we two suffered from different fraudulent restoration projects. As for myself, I lost quite a good sum of money. From my point of view we should unite all those who lost money on SRP projects. We can do this only through the forum. I'm sure something can be done.

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The thing is that SRP has never wanted to be a platform for public conflict or conflict resolution, hence the policy of non-involvement.
So, if you think about it for a second, SRP isn't really interested in keeping members who are causing conflicts. So the best you can probably do is report the issue to the moderators and let them decide if there is a reason to take a punitive action, and what kind. After all they are in charge of making the decisions of what is best for the community as a whole.

Just like the case I started this thread about. If we hadn't heard about the original case, I would have had no reason to intervene when that scammer came back almost year later. BTW that person is still celebrated on another shaving forum as an honest restorer and honer. Similarly with another person who took advantage of the generosity of several SRP members, then when I banned him and exposed him, he went on few more shaving sites, where he even got celebrated, because in their view 'to be banned on SRP one surely must be doing something right'....

Again, I hope you just don't have unrealistic expectations of what the moderators can and will do, and understand that this is an open forum complete with jerks, scammers, and abusers.

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Originally Posted by Nonstickron

Tar and feather time. :)

They should get involved by making it as public as possible. Reputations need to reflect these kind of things.

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Why not create your own site dedicated to providing reputation?

Well, if they've been booted, so much the better.

What James said is 100% correct,shit happens,good happens,and Karma always prevails.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

What James said is 100% correct,shit happens,good happens,and Karma always prevails.

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I need to work on my pithy-ness. You captured in one line what took me 5 paragraphs. Pithmeister! :)

James.

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Originally Posted by Nonstickron

Tar and feather time. :)

They should get involved by making it as public as possible. Reputations need to reflect these kind of things.

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You GO Ron!. I am sure we all feel the same. Reputations have a way of filtering down. However this forum does not engage in bashing. No one can know the details of a person's life on the internet. Things happen beyond a person's control on a daily basis. If someone is having a problem, Razors are worthless. Benefit of the doubt only goes so far, though. One must think of the positive relationships here. As Said, the negatives are few. JMHO Tom

Part of the reason SRP doesn't get in the middle of these things is that we don't know who is telling the truth. It seems quite cut and dried but that ain't always necessarily so. That issue has been around a long time. The ninth commandment is Thou Shall Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor. I'm not saying that is what is happening in this particular instance. Just that issues of he said, she said have been around since Adam and Eve. SRP can't mediate these things so we don't allow the two ..... or more participants to air the laundry publicly on the forum .

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Part of the reason SRP doesn't get in the middle of these things is that we don't know who is telling the truth. It seems quite cut and dried but that ain't always necessarily so. That issue has been around a long time. The ninth commandment is Thou Shall Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor. I'm not saying that is what is happening in this particular instance. Just that issues of he said, she said have been around since Adam and Eve. SRP can't mediate these things so we don't allow the two ..... or more participants to air the laundry publicly on the forum .

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Yep! I vote to close the thread! Any eyes?

I got a email today about a razor that I have on the classifieds and it was a weird email and I knew it was a spam when he said was A. Hello I'm out on the sea right now and I wanna buy the razor u have for for sale. And he said he was going to have a guy pick it up for him and he would send me 350 dollars and I keep my cut of I would have to send the rest to western union...... Ummmmmmmmmm SCAM!!!!!!! I can't believe people I would love to just punch them in the face But that's me So guys beware his name is "Edited Out"

Yep time to shut this door

Sorry guys

Thread Closed for now