NOS Premium vs Value

I've gotten a couple of razors off Ebay (Pritzlaff Cactus 5/8, Griffon 60 Carbo-Magnetic 5/8, etc) that are euphemistically referred to as good shavers. Not collectors items but any means but after a good honing (thank you Lynn) are good working shavers which is fine by me. Plus a new Dovo 5/8 and others.

As I get a little deeper in the the hobby (well, a lot deeper) I want to expand my rotation. As I look at the SRP classified ads and Ebay, I'll spot razors listed as NOS and depending on the manufacturers reputation, they will be at a premium. There's a WB Bow on auction now, for example, that's listed as NOS. Way out of my price range so I'm just watching this one.

NOS! WADE & BUTCHER BOW STRAIGHT RAZOR ( FACTORY GRIND, ORIGINAL SCALES, COFFIN) | eBay

My question is this. How does one determine whether the premium one pays for NOS is worth the value? I'm looking at them as tools that will last decades and it's been my painful experience that a used tool generally won't last as long as a new tool with a solid reputation. What I don't know is if NOS should be considered a new tool or a collectors item.

Certainly how the razor shaves is the key determinant but at what point does a razor pass from a being a tool to being, as in old cars, a garage queen and purchsed for that reason?

This may be way overthinking this but I would like to get some opinions from more experienced members about razor values.

The value is entirely up to you. They are tools and are meant to be used

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...-too-late.html

or they are rare, unique, and will appreciate in value so you want to invest
with an expectation of future value so stop thinking of them as tools.

It seems you want to shave with them. Buy what fits your wallet and enjoy.
Trying to anticipate which razors will attract enough attention to be collectable
is frustrating at best and likely not the best investment.

Here's my opinion and I don't know if it will help at all. There are 200 year old razors that have been well used and nameless that still shave great and will probably continue to do so for at least 200 more years. Quality is quality, no matter how old, how used or what name is on it.

Also realize that N.O.S. in no way means Mint.

A part of the problem with our beloved straight razors and locating and purchasing same is, imho, is no specific
definition of "NOS" and lacking that allows way to much leeway in condition. And of course unsrupulous sellers will take advantage of the use of NOS for their own ends.
I have to think a lot of us have our own interpretation of what NOS should mean but we may not all agree on what that is.
I would love to see/find and have the razor community agree on the terminology by definition which would enable us to
readily point out misrepresentations of the definition when we encounter them.
Of course I day dream alot as well. :shrug:

I've made more than a few razor purchases on EBay and I have as yet to buy a NOS straight razor. I agree with you, typically they come at a high premium and I am not willing to buy something on EBay that I can't turn for a slight profit. In other words, I don't want to buy something above market value which is somewhat recognizable. If you look at the date the item was put up on EBay originally, then if it has been relisted several times, that is a good indication that what is being charged for the item is more than the market will bear. For example, I have seen a couple NOS TIs on EBay that have been listed over and over again since around December of last year. Such can be a decent indicator that the prices being asked are just too high for the products.

I don't take "NOS" to be a new tool unless I can verify that it really is "new old stock." I had an EBayer reveal to me, after several rounds of questions about his so-called "NOS" razors, that his "new" razors were in his daily shaving rotation. Sorry, but that means the razors are now USED and are not new. Again, unless you can verify with the seller that the item being sold really is new, then I wouldn't put any stock into the item being NOS and would treat it as used in whatever condition it appears to be... even if in mint condition. Another thought is that NOS items can be both collectors items and a "new tool." Once you start shaving with it, though, it is no longer "new old stock." But, that doesn't mean it won't increase in value over time. Just look at the W&B 8/8 razors! WOW! Those razors get amazingly pricey and if I were to buy one, I wouldn't worry too much about being able to turn it over and make a little money or at least get all my money back from one. They seem to be holding value pretty well. But, still, there is risk there, since the market might go a different direction and the prices could fall down.

— Jim

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Originally Posted by DGilloon

I've gotten a couple of razors off Ebay (Pritzlaff Cactus 5/8, Griffon 60 Carbo-Magnetic 5/8, etc) that are euphemistically referred to as good shavers. Not collectors items but any means but after a good honing (thank you Lynn) are good working shavers which is fine by me. Plus a new Dovo 5/8 and others.

As I get a little deeper in the the hobby (well, a lot deeper) I want to expand my rotation. As I look at the SRP classified ads and Ebay, I'll spot razors listed as NOS and depending on the manufacturers reputation, they will be at a premium. There's a WB Bow on auction now, for example, that's listed as NOS. Way out of my price range so I'm just watching this one.

NOS! WADE & BUTCHER BOW STRAIGHT RAZOR ( FACTORY GRIND, ORIGINAL SCALES, COFFIN) | eBay

My question is this. How does one determine whether the premium one pays for NOS is worth the value? I'm looking at them as tools that will last decades and it's been my painful experience that a used tool generally won't last as long as a new tool with a solid reputation. What I don't know is if NOS should be considered a new tool or a collectors item.

Certainly how the razor shaves is the key determinant but at what point does a razor pass from a being a tool to being, as in old cars, a garage queen and purchsed for that reason?

This may be way overthinking this but I would like to get some opinions from more experienced members about razor values.

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NOS has absolutely nothing to do with 'value' as a shaver. After all, a razor shaves just as well if it has been used before.
It is mostly a factor regarding collectibility. And as someone already mentioned: NOS does not mean mint.
It just means it hasn't been used before and (usually) comes in original packaging.

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Originally Posted by DGilloon

My question is this. How does one determine whether the premium one pays for NOS is worth the value?

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It's very simple - your money, your call. If you don't know what something is worth to you you're gambling so the value is in the enjoyment you derive from this kind of entertainment.

As others have mentioned, it's very much a personal issue. For me, most times it's not. That being said, maybe I'm missing out because I don't have a Filharmonica or a new/old razor over 8/8, but that's the thing, I don't know. I'd rather spend the money on a Hart or a lower priced custom than what I've seen some of these 'NOS' razors going for. I'd rather save the money and spend it on a truely shave ready razor to use than have a 'trailer Queen or Garage Queen' that is just there to show.

Did anyone check out the linked razor?
There is no way that thing is NOS, same goes with all the sellers other listed razors IMO.

I personally do not think NOS is worth the premium if you are going to shave with it. But, sometimes the heart wants what the heart wants and you have no choice but to pay what someone else wants you to pay. It might be your money, but it is their razor.

And can someone please explain to me how NOS does not mean mint? I am genuinely curious.

James.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

NOS has absolutely nothing to do with 'value' as a shaver. After all, a razor shaves just as well if it has been used before.
It is mostly a factor regarding collectibility. And as someone already mentioned: NOS does not mean mint.
It just means it hasn't been used before and (usually) comes in original packaging.

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I believe this to be the definition of NOS.

that's the other thing: buyer beware.
It is not impossible to find a NOS sheffield razor. I have had 1 John Barber that I am pretty sure was NOS.
But it is very rare. In those days, they were made to be used. If you see a razor that they clam is NOS, take a very close look at the spine and the edge.
In those days, the craftsmen made very good grinds, and as a results the razors had very narrow bevels and no hone wear. So if there is any hone wear or uneven bevels (or if it looks used :)) it is not NOS.

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And can someone please explain to me how NOS does not mean mint? I am genuinely curious

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The economists definition of NOS says that any item that was never sold to a consumer is NOS. Meaning if the manufacturer sold a thousand razors to a distributor, and that distributor left them in his garage for 60 years, and never sold them to a consumer, the merchandise is NOS. Now he decides he wants to get rid of them. A razor seller buys them from him, and they are still technically NOS until the day he sells it to a consumer. Now, even if that consumer never uses the item, it is still no longer NOS. It is no longer an inventory item, but now a consumed item...It is no longer "in stock:, therefore cannot be New old stock. It might be in mint condition, in average condition, or in terrible condition. But it cannot be NOS if a consumer has purchased it. NOS has absolutely nothing to do with condition of merchandise, and everything to do with who has collected tax receipts on the merchandise.

Disclaimer: I totally understand that at least half of you won't agree with that. lol

OP: NOS is not worth the gum on the bottom of my shoe. But if I was a distributor, it sure would be.

Have sold alot of NOS razors in the past 4 mos.All my Dorkos were in factory wrapped boxes,every one of them had loose wedges do to being over 70 yrs old,they were all 100% factory NOS,but not by definition mint.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I personally do not think NOS is worth the premium if you are going to shave with it. But, sometimes the heart wants what the heart wants and you have no choice but to pay what someone else wants you to pay. It might be your money, but it is their razor.

And can someone please explain to me how NOS does not mean mint? I am genuinely curious.

James.

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Im sure enough people have bought sealed NOS razors with cell rot so bad the razors were unusable.... or rusted out from damp storage, these examples would not mean mint :)

Regularjoe is totally correct. In the general sense NOS just means it was never sold before. I collect timepieces and you will see watches that were never sold that sat in a jewelers stock for years and many have been defective pieces or pieces he used as loaners for repair work. Or maybe when he sold his business he stored away mdse in his basement for 40 years.

It has nothing to do with condition just retail status.

It's very possible a NOS item will be in it's original factory sealed packaging however that is a real leap of faith because the item also might have sat who knows where for many years and could be rusted out and as soon as you open the packaging that premium you paid for the item dissolves.

I'm always willing to pay a premium for a razor that hasn't been honed by anyone else. Saves me time on corrective work. So I usually prefer new.

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Originally Posted by epd

Im sure enough people have bought sealed NOS razors with cell rot so bad the razors were unusable.... or rusted out from damp storage, these examples would not mean mint :)

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And people are prepared to call a razor like that "NOS"? Is the "New" in "NOS" the same as the "new" in "The Emperor's New Clothes"? lol

James.

I'm not sure that a collectable can be seen as an investment any longer. It's true that 'quality' will alway be appreciated by someone but if a hobby doesn't involve an item that can be easily chged to cash it may just be a fun thing to have and in our case a skill held by a few.

Let me toss just another wrinkle in the mix :rofl2:

Unless the Box/Wrapper is still sealed, you really can't even claim NOS if ya wanna get technical (on most every razor) in the old days the razors were honed at the factory :)

In our little corner of the world we generally confuse NOS and Mint and pretty much we all know that either means a damn fine razor that has not been abused...

Thanks, Glen. That was basically what I was getting at.

I wasn't looking at it from a collecting standpoint but rather as what is the premium worth for that tool that has never been abused. For me, unwrapped, unopened and unused is just a dust collector which is why I have only a passing interest in the auction in question.

As much enjoyment I see that many members on this forum get from salvaging old blades, there is the time/money factor. It it's really NOS, then hone it up and put it the rotation. If it's a salvage, how much time needs to be spent in order to get it back into the rotation is a factor. If you're making works of art and with all highest regards, many members here are, that is a different set of standards and then the time requirements don't apply, only the finished product. There is also the capital investment in tools and equipment in order to accomplish that task. I'm not blessed with either the extra time or tools.

I guess what I'm saying is that for me, at this point in the hobby, as a junior member, that premium and a trip to a honemeister is worth the extra money for a blade is shave ready and will last for years doing it's job with a minimum of fuss. Perhaps in the future I'll have the two missing factors but not now.
I recently built a paddle strop station for the bathroom and I'm still cleaning up sawdust in the kitchen. Hand polishing blades is quite enjoyable in a zen kind of way and doesn't require much more than a supply of old socks. Honing will come with time. Building scales, grinding out pits, I just don't have room for that.

The BBS shave however, makes my day.

I guess I am one of those who actually are willing to pay a premium on a NOS, or mint razor.
I don't collect as such, well, I don't keep them locked up without using them:)
To me, it is just a way to be more sure about the razors condition, and that is worth a premium. IMHO.
That, and my restoration skills leaves a bit to be desired:)

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Originally Posted by Birnando

I guess I am one of those who actually are willing to pay a premium on a NOS, or mint razor.
I don't collect as such, well, I don't keep them locked up without using them:)
To me, it is just a way to be more sure about the razors condition, and that is worth a premium. IMHO.
That, and my restoration skills leaves a bit to be desired:)

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Agree 100%,with my honing skills at this point (about two yrs in) if some hack is going to totally fubar a NOS blade.
I want to be that person:)

Is it worth the premium cost? If you like the razor, and can afford it, then by all means, yes.

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Originally Posted by Johnus

I'm not sure that a collectable can be seen as an investment any longer. It's true that 'quality' will alway be appreciated by someone but if a hobby doesn't involve an item that can be easily chged to cash it may just be a fun thing to have and in our case a skill held by a few.

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Yep. Buying razors as collectible investments is a huge risk. If the straight razor interest decreases again, your investment will tank.
And even if it doesn't, it may be hard to get cash short term, meaning you either have no money or you have to take a loss.

Real NOS, original unopened packaging, is primarily for collectors and is certainly worth a somewhat premium price. However, using a NOS or high mint razor can be expected to decrease its market value. For a pristine user razor, I prefer a mint or close to mint razor. I will not then have to worry about causing unavoidable wear marks such as around the pivot thereby depressing the value of my razor. I will not have to feel bad about the new wear showing on a pristine finish.

Waiting for a close to mint razor and paying a reasonable premium may also prove less costly and more satisfactory than the cost of acquiring and restoring a well used razor. Of course, some hobbiests will regard the experiences of razor restoration as an enjoyable part of the hobby and more power to them. I also like acquiring high quality restoration resales that look almost new for my use, if the price is right.

I recently got an "MIB" razor on the bay for a very reasonable price.
My assumtions that "MIB" actually stood for 'New In Box' were correct as it seemed to have absolutely no hone wear.
That is still the case as I used tape to hone it up and it shaves very nicely.
I couldn't have a razor that I couldn't use

The term NOS has nothing to do with it's physical condition. When you talk NOS and Mint condition you are talking apples and oranges. NOS only refers to the retail or sales status of the item. it was never meant to be used the way it commonly is. Folks think it means a mint item and it may be and it may be not.