SRP seal of approval

I mentioned this in a thread, but rather than hijacking it further I thought I'd bring the idea out here and see if it gets any interest.

What if we could reduce the number of people who get suckered into buying "minty" eBay razors and Zeepks?

I think we could pretty easily design a simple setup that would function as an "SRP seal of approval" for eBay sellers. It could increase our membership, help fight fraud and ripoff artists, and generally be a service to men everywhere. It would also help sellers, since auctions with the seal might command a higher bid price.

Here's what I'm thinking: We could design a simple logo, based on the SRP logo; that would be the seal. Sellers would ask us for permission to use it. (We could get the ball rolling with the members here who sell on eBay.)

In exchange, they'd need to follow a set of auction standards, listing meaningful info like blade width, condition and grind rather than overall length.

In the auction they could include the seal, a link to an SRP guide to buying straights and a link to our list of approved sellers, where their name would be displayed. We already keep a list of names, so we probably could figure out a way to make this fly. Our RAD sufferers could help police things.

EBayers who were looking at a variety of straights would probably stumble across one listed with the SRP seal and links, and maybe we'd get a few new members.

Anyway, it's just an idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there. I just shudder every time someone comes here and asks about his shiny new razor he got for $2.99 plus $49.97 shipping and handling... I guess it is expensive to ship stuff from Pakistan.

Anybody else think this could work?

Josh

Seems like a good idea to me. If maybe a complicated one.

I put " ~SRP~ "
at the end of the description in my auctions. That way people from the forum know it's a safe bid.

I suggested this back when this was only a 'yahoo' forum, but for some reason, it did not last, and now I'm the only one!

LOL!
:shrug:

C utz

And don't think it was not appreciated Chris........from the beginning..........hahahahah. Still a good idea.

Thanks,

Lynn

Its a good idea but I don't think its a practical one. There are just too many sellers on Eboy and many really don't know anything about razors they are just antique dealers or second hand junk dealers. You would have to contact hundreds of people and ask them to participate and thats only the usual suspects on Eboy. The ones that sell the junk would probably not care to join and those that sell quality stuff on a regular basis most of us already know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshearl

What if we could reduce the number of people who get suckered into buying "minty" eBay razors and Zeepks?

---

For a while guys were putting "SRP" into their ads.

I always wonder how this kind of thing would be enforced. In other words, what would you do about someone who decides to use your seal without permission. The companies who own certification marks have legale staffs monitoring them and lawyers who enforce them and go after misuses.

Including a link to the SRP's list of approved vendors should do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Including a link to the SRP's list of approved vendors should do it.

---

I like that one...

I am just concerned about hordes of Zeepk and moustache-razor dealers flocking in and requesting the SRP seal of approval.

How would you get on the approved list? We wouldn't want the unscrupulous to add themselves to get over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Including a link to the SRP's list of approved vendors should do it.

---

I agree...that is a great idea. I dont think it should be up to SRP to enforce eBay auctions, it should be up the sellers to find SRP. Many buyers are also sellers and word would travel quickly.

My concerns are:

1. SRP would have to make sure it is not held at fault for a bad auction from an approved vender.
2. Upon violation of the rules (YTBD) we immediately remove someone from the approved vender list and make sure there is a disclaimer in the list stating if you dont see a sellers name, they are not approved by SRP
3. I think that eventually if something like this were to become popular SRP should charge something for this service to support the cost of the forums.

To help inform people about this site and what we do I include a clickable link directly to SRP in my ebay Shaving Set Auctions.

Not sure if it steered anyone this way but I thought it would help.


Tony

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLStorm

My concerns are:

1. SRP would have to make sure it is not held at fault for a bad auction from an approved vender.

---

I'm not a lawyer, but this is what immediately popped into my head. Could any of the lawyers here comment on whether SRP could be liable for any problems, or more importantly if the administrators and members could be named personally in a law suit should something go really bad?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by b0000urns

I'm not a lawyer, but this is what immediately popped into my head. Could any of the lawyers here comment on whether SRP could be liable for any problems, or more importantly if the administrators and members could be named personally in a law suit should something go really bad?

---

I would think a general disclaimer would cover it, its just a matter of either having someone write one, or copying one and having it "blessed" by someone knowledgable with such things.

Without belabouring the points raised below, I think that creating an SRP seal of approval for e-bay vendors is not worth the hassle.

First, this type of approval would likely only be useful for people who know what SRP is - basically people who are members already. If a member of the board wants to sell on e-bay, then simply listing the auction here as well would do the trick.

Second, there's a lot of discussion here about good vendors vs. bad vendors - it might be more useful to start a separate sub-forum in the auction forum where people can specifically comment on e-bay experiences. We do this already, but this would be a little more systematic - perhaps we could even formally rate e-bay vendors.

In addition to the questionable utility of an SRP seal of approval, there are several issues associated with authorizing people to use the SRP name in this way, namely:

1) Criteria for obtaining designation (this is especially problematic as vendors of crappy new razors are not dishonest, they're just selling inferior products);

2) Terms of use - we would effectively be granting a license to use the SRP name/logo and would need to be clear about retaining ownership, control, etc.;

3) Criteria for revocation - this would be a major nightmare;

4) Policing - how would we effectively monitor how the SRP name/logo is being used;

5) Liability - while any license to use the SRP name/logo would have to include indemnification for SRP, that doesn't mean you won't get sued or threatened with a suit. (I won't even go into whether there's actually any value in an indemnity in this situation or the possibilty of SRP being found liable for misconduct of an e-bay vendor).

So, long post short, I think its more trouble than its worth - I realize that I'm a very new member to the board, but I've seen these sorts of situations go wrong before and think that this is likely not a direction that is in the best interest of SRP - especially when we can achieve the same thing using the board.

Just my very long $0.02.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by b0000urns

I'm not a lawyer, but this is what immediately popped into my head. Could any of the lawyers here comment on whether SRP could be liable for any problems, or more importantly if the administrators and members could be named personally in a law suit should something go really bad?

---

THe discclaimer to the effect that we're not endorsing any product, just the reputation of the seller would do it. But I have some concern about charging a fee, unless it's for a license to use the seal.

What do we do if someone uses the link or the seal and is not approved? I'm wondering if users would use the link if they saw the seal. I've seen some bigger companies use Lynn's video with out permission.

Unfortunately, the sad fact of litigation is that anyone can be named as a defendant - regardless of whether there's any culpability on their part - they then get dragged along for the ride. Disclaimers are nice and, at the end of the day may be effective, doesn't mean you're not getting sued by some crackpot who's upset over having bought a dud razor.

While there is a hypothetical risk of being sued, realistically speaking the value of most e-bay razors is sufficiently low that most people just whine a little - I think that commencing a law suit over the amounts likely at issue is pretty unlikely. In addition, there are e-bay and paypal dispute resolution mechanisms that people would almost certainly resort to before commencing a lawsuit against SRP.

Also, I don't think we're going to see a rush of people selling Master of Pakistani razors seeking the SRP seal of approval - but there will be some and we'd have to consider how to deal with them.

Joe, your concern about policing the use of the SRP name/seal/link without authorization is a real one - is SRP in a position to make sure that inferior sellers don't use the SRP name, let alone prevent them from continuing from doing so.

I think that, practically-speaking, the real issue is whether, in light of other things we can do, this sort of thing is worthwhile and the risk of reputational damage to SRP and those closely affiliated with it.

My view is that creating an internal forum where people rank e-bay vendors would help members. In addition, the e-bay members could, of their own volition, simply state that SRP members consistently say good things about them and provide a link to the appropriate SRP forum/thread, etc.

Just another $0.02 (so I guess I'm up to $0.04!).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by suzuki

Without belabouring the points raised below, I think that creating an SRP seal of approval for e-bay vendors is not worth the hassle.

First, this type of approval would likely only be useful... especially when we can achieve the same thing using the board.

Just my very long $0.02.

---

I only deleted the middle quotes cause I am saving post space, but I have to agree with all that you said. Very well written. You could sell snake oil... :)

Sorry, Ilija, I just jumped ship... :eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by urleebird

Sorry, Ilija, I just jumped ship... :eek:

---

No worries Bill, I've got my feet on both decks, weighing the pros/cons.

I think the issue of liability is a mighty one. I'm no attorney but I can tell you that you can't just issue a disclaimer saying we're not responsible.

It reminds me of an issue many years ago that came up in New York City when all finer restaurants had a coat check room with an attendant and a big sign saying we are not responsible for loss of personal property and one day some one lost an expensive fur coat and sued the establishment. The restaurant pointed to their disclaimer unfortunately the court didn't agree and overnight most disclaimers became worthless. The point is if we are giving a vender a seal of approval and he rips someone off and it winds up in court someone is going to have to show how we investigated this vender and determined his status to earn this seal of approval. If our steps to determine his eligibility in our program don't meet the courts interpretations someone here is going to get slammed.

Like everything else you can get away with something for years and then things go bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I think the issue of liability is a mighty one. I'm no attorney but I can tell you that you can't just issue a disclaimer saying we're not responsible.

It reminds me of an issue many years ago that came up in New York City when all finer restaurants had a coat check room with an attendant and a big sign saying we are not responsible for loss of personal property and one day some one lost an expensive fur coat and sued the establishment. The restaurant pointed to their disclaimer unfortunately the court didn't agree and overnight most disclaimers became worthless. The point is if we are giving a vender a seal of approval and he rips someone off and it winds up in court someone is going to have to show how we investigated this vender and determined his status to earn this seal of approval. If our steps to determine his eligibility in our program don't meet the courts interpretations someone here is going to get slammed.

Like everything else you can get away with something for years and then things go bad.

---

I can't argue with that. You can't disclaim liability if a reasonable person would have been more careful under the circumstances.

And we know who would get slammed here- Lynn. So, he really has to have the final say.

I think at the end of the day, we each based on our experience provide our opinions and our opinions only. We are not paid to do this and only offer when asked. In addition we have always indicated that individual personal taste rules the day. I don't feel that SRP or any of us should assume any liability as a result of a poor purchase by an individual based on individual decsision.

This work Joe??? If not, please wordsmith it for me.........

Lynn

Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world. No matter what we put our "stamp" on, things happen. On the DE forums, there was recently a rash of Simpsons brushes with handles that were cracking. Now, Simpsons is a respected brand, but things do happen. The sad thing is, in today's world, overall, people do not want to accept responsibility. Nothing is perfect. I recently returned a movie I purchased to Wal Mart. It was unopened because I bought the wrong movie. The lady in front of my was complaining and wanting to exchange a pair of sneakers she bought 5 months before...because they did not last as long as she wanted them to last! I've had dealings with Classic Shaving, QED, Em's Place and Lee's Razors and would have no issues recommending them to anyone. But as human nature dictates, should someone have an issue with any of them, odds are they will post about the negative before allowing the vendor to make it a positive.

RT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adjustme69

I think at the end of the day, we each based on our experience provide our opinions and our opinions only. We are not paid to do this and only offer when asked. In addition we have always indicated that individual personal taste rules the day. I don't feel that SRP or any of us should assume any liability as a result of a poor purchase by an individual based on individual decsision.

This work Joe??? If not, please wordsmith it for me.........

Lynn

---

It's fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rtaylor61

I've had dealings with Classic Shaving, QED, Em's Place and Lee's Razors and would have no issues recommending them to anyone. But as human nature dictates, should someone have an issue with any of them, odds are they will post about the negative before allowing the vendor to make it a positive.

---

It reminds me of a situation at one of the other shaving sites. A group purchase had been made of a club brush. One guy had a problem and kept posting complaints. As a group we kept telling to contact the supplier, who we believed would handle it. Eventually, we got so angry with the guy that people started insisting that he stop complaining. Well, when he weht to the supplier he made good on everything.

We're fortunate to have vendors we can count on, like the ones you mentioned. It's a pleasure to deal with them.

Joe,

I'm aware of the situation you mention. Personally, I belive that if you have an issue, you go to the source first. For example, I purchased a T&H brush from Ashford.com. I used the Google check out to save $10 dollars. What I did not know, is that when you use Google to check out, there is a delay in processing the order for a "fraud" check. Well, the brush sold out during that process. Ashford, with, IMO, a poor business practice, did not reserve a brush for me. Will I use them again? HELL NO! And their condescending emails afterwards to me enforced my desire not to do business with them. My other experiences with them were top notch. But their attitude is pitiful. I sell cars for a living. If a customer has an issue, I don't worry about who is paying for the problem, or how the problem will be paid for, I just get it handled. The customer wants results. I deliver those results. And I have personally paid for repairs for customers. I believe that MY reputation is worth the expense.

RT

True! It's the problem with big companies. because they're "just employees" people won't take responsibility for the actions of the company that they work for.
I couldn't work like that.