Thread: Is this still useable?

Wullie --
I hope you washed your hands afterwards!

Originally Posted by Wullie

Ina addition to what Glen said, Nitric acid is the main culprit.

Some types of celluloid are more prone to breaking down than others. Just ONE razor with the scales going bad can ruin several others that may happen to be in close proximity. The problem isn't exclusive to "old" celluloid either. During the 70's and 80's there was a rash of bad celluloid coming from Germany. It was used on high end pocket knives as well as razors. I've seen "BUCK CREEK" pocket knives made in Solingen in the late 80's and early 90's that literally fell apart in my hand from cell rot.

Keep an eye on ALL of your celluloid scales. If it starts going South, Get the scales off the razor and out of the house.

Funny thing about the handle material is that it did NOT eat steel. It did play HELL with the brass liners though.

The liners are what saved the steel. "sacrificial lambs" much like the zinc on marine vessels, the more "noble" metal took the hit! (least thats what I think)
my science is as rusty as a cell rotted blade. Or is that my brain is as rotted as a celluloid covered blade?
or somthin...

of course, they could also simply be stainless...

I perty sure rust does attack Zinc before any
other metal.
I have seen Stainless blades rust.

Sulie, that sure is the truth! (about rusting stainless)

But the stainless used in the pocket knife blades I have seen tends to be more resistant than the steel used in...say.. a Friodur straight razor.

Same reason cheap stainless kitchen knives dont hold an edge long. lower rusting tends toward equating to lower hardness

This thread has been very interesting and I can relate it to other "things".
When Glen mentioned that he could smell ammonia alarm bells went off with me.
The presence of ammonia is one of the "tells" for the breakdown of proteins (and related compounds)
We've all heard the "one bad apple can spoil the whole barrel" story...but there is a reason.
As fruit ripens is gives off Ethylene gas. The presence of ethylene will also cause fruit to either start to ripen or accelerate the process.
Some fruits give off more than their share, Kiwi's come to mind. Fruit wholesalers with park a pallet of Kiwi in an area with un-ripened apples for instance to get them ready for market. ( the fruit is keep in stasis by controlling temperature (low) and CO2 levels (high))

This is why when you go the grocery store you have those "island" displays with different produce groups. They don't play well together..

Don't get me started about bananas...

So...once one of the sets of scales "goes over the edge" and starts to off-gas (die) the presence in a confined area (on the same "island") could be accelerating the process for any scale material predisposed to breakdown. The off-gasing, mixing with moisture in the air and the lack of circulation (that would dilute the process) and you have created the slow-cooker of razor destruction with things you had lying around.

Not that I would want to be part of the experiment, but lowering the temp could keep the process from starting or slow it down, but once it starts the damage is coming sooner or later.

Thank you again for a very interesting thread.

I have bought razors in worse condition. For very, very cheap.

Both of the razors I got were, ultimately, fixable. But both also had a belly to the grind, meaning a slightly thicker area near the bevel. It's really hard to spot in a photo, and even difficult sometimes in person, and I doubt it's complete proof against bad cell rot. But on the two I got, both took a good shaving edge after an intense amount of work. And they're extremely ugly. There's few things sadder than a razor that was previously very ornamented that's now half-rotted.

Personally, I would not buy that. And I like lost-causes.

Here sometime i buy alot of the times really rusty.
I found one has to be very careful not to pay much.
when they are super rusty.
Cause sometimes you end up with a axe i can use
to chop fire wood. But the edge was so Rusty and pitted it will
always be like swiss chesse from really bad pitting.
I really don't like how people treat them as lawn decor.
They are a useable tool to chop wood.
Those two look like i be able to put a prefect edge on bought
of them.

Can wd 40 be use on razors.
that have a little rust.
Cause that stuff is awesome with
bidding with rust.
and the rust is littery dripping off the axes
i buy.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Celluloid Rot is not fixable once it starts, the Celluliod begins to break down and off gas, but because there were so many different formulas for making it there are no hard and fast rules, about spotting it..

I can only go by expierence and it tells me that what we see there is Cell Rot

Clues for everyones Knowledge:

Warpage
Color change
Actual break down of the fibers
Patterned corrosion on the blade that matches the scale pattern
Corrosion on the blade only where it is inbetween the scales from the off gassing
A sweet vinegar smell


None of these are true for all Celluliod scales but after you see it a few times you know it.. Sorta like when people ask about how to tell real Ivory, once you see real Ivory in your hands you will never ask again...

I may have a case....
Bought this Crown & Sword pair that came in the mail today.
They look ok but:
The scales are slightly warped and appear to have "shrunk" - its a very tight fit.
This discoloratoin pattern is present, mostly behind the scales but its very light and seem to clean/buff with Autosol
No scent of vinegar.

Opinion?

The Bartman is something I wouldn't have purchased --- but ---what the heck -- I'd get after that blade with some sandpaper in progression and see what I could do. The gold-wash is a goner for sure, but you don't know about the blade itself until you've started to play. Kill the scales, they don't deserve to survive.

MJC's Crown and Swords -- depends on how they clean up with polish. Looks like something that could stand some buffing, something I have no skill at, other guys are artists with a buffer. The scales --maybe just keep an eye on them? But, if they're warped and shrinking already, probably not worth the risk.