Do you get what you pay for?

TulaneBoy,

Welcome to SRP!

You don't have to spend a ton of money to get started in this endeavor, and ideally, whatever you buy to get you started would be something that could last a lifetime (though trust me, you'll want to upgrade!)

See my post in this thread for a list of hypothetical things for a beginner to buy on a modest budget (link)

In that thread, the OP had a $350 budget and, following my list and before shipping costs, would have had 2 brand new, shave ready straight razors, strop, brush, mug, 1 puck soap,1 cream and a couple of post shave items to experiment with and still had $50 left to play with.

Would someone who buys what I have on that list be content with only those items for the rest of their days? Maybe. Could they be? Absolutely. :)

Again, welcome, and don't hesitate to let us know if you need help or have questions!! We love helping out our brothers in blades!

Hiya, I'm actually located in Algiers Point and Have been Straight Shaving for a while now, If you are interested we can get together and I can show you one of those cheap $10 razors and why its not good versus the Vintage or New Quality Razors. I started with a Brand New DOVO and the Van Der Hagen Luxury Set for the soap and Brush. As far as the strop goes I can show you why you shouldn't use the Heirloom right away as well... I also Have a Razor that I would be willing to lend you for a bit to see if Straight Shaving is something you'd actually be interested in pursuing. All of the advice you have gotten thus far has been SPOT ON, I can tell you for a newbie shaver, this sight is GOLD!! If yer Interested in talking PM me and we'll see what we can work out.

Have a look in the brushmakers alcove forum regarding replacing The knot on your brush, the folk there will help you out.
I have only really had cheapish brushes and in my opinion they are fine, I have used Palmolive stick soap and a brush for as long as I can remember, mainly because I am tight, and it was a heap cheaper to go with that, I think I used gels and so forth for a while when I started shaving, in fact probably used whatever was in the house.
If you don't want a vintage blade, don't get one. I can't say much else about razors as I would be guessing, but I suspect that some of the more experienced guys could give you some input regarding the cheap razors.

You know, whenever someone asks if you get what you pay for, I always go for the statistical answer: on average yes, but individually it may vary (sometimes by a lot).

There are always bargains to be found, or rip-offs to be avoided, and of course everything in between. This is particularly true in the more volatile "second-hand/vintage" market, but can also be true in the new razor market too, though usually to a lesser degree. And not just razors of course: strops, brushes, creams, hones etc all have their little foibles and subjectivities when it comes to perceived value for money.

Problem is, of course, that we are each individuals and not an average, so we each have to make individual choices and jump into that vast pool of variation. However, we can ensure we fall nearer the middle with a bit of research. Just look before you jump to avoid the rocks. All it takes is a bit of time and effort.

Good luck, and may all your choices be average! :D

James.

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Originally Posted by Attila

...The advice about not using your heirloom strop until you have improved at stropping is a good one. You WILL cut up the strop when you are learning. All of us do.

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All of us? For the record I just want to note that I practiced stropping with a butterknife, first on a old belt and then with my first "real" strop, for about an hour (spread out over several days) before I ever put a razor to leather. I am not particularly coordinated or talented with games that use hand-controllers.

For the record I felt very well prepared to strop a razor on leather when the time came. I began very slowly and methodically and, over a few weeks, gradually increased my speed. I was careful, deliberate and I mean to say I beat the snot out of that first strop. Saying I only nicked it is being nice to myself. I slayed to son of a gun. I turned one corner into chopped liver. So, for the record, maybe not ALL of us cut our first strop but I mangled mine. Glad it was a cheap-o, oh yes. :D

At the beginning, not sure about SR fit or not for me ... i've taken a Gold Dollar 100
Gold Dollar 100 Barber Straight Cut Razor High Carbon Steel Blade Shaver GD100 | eBay
Really slow to hone, but it works.
And i use AlOx lapping film. :D
If you are sure about SR, take a look on this pakistani set
Sovereign Straight Cutthroat Razor with Badger Brush Strop Shaving Set | eBay

Not need hundreds dollars to shave :gl:

Most everyone has nicked their strops multiple times while learning. Even experienced SR users may occasionally nick their strop. If the irreplaceable heirloom strop matters to you, I would 1st develop your proficiency on another strop.

A razor that is not shave ready will not shave comfortably and may not shave at all. It is important for a nooby to start with a shave ready SR because without one, a nooby will not be able to determine whether any shaving issues are prep, technique, or a dull razor. Having a shave ready SR is so important that even experienced SR users will often keep at least a few fresh razors honed by respected honers around as a reference for comparison when something seems to be off with their honing or shaving.

There are two usually reliable ways to get a reasonable cost shave ready SR:
-Buy a shave ready (vendor honed) basic name brand (Dovo, TI, RA, etc.) razor from a reliable vendor who specializes in straight razors. New razors do not come actually shave ready from the factory and need honing before 1st use.
-Buy a vintage shave ready SR with light wear from the classifieds. There are many brands of vintage razors that shave very well, but are not the pricey hot sellers (brands such as DD, W&B, and filimonica) of the moment. I have seen some reasonably good vintage SR being sold shave ready around a price of $ 50. This is what I bought as a nooby and I believe that such prices are a bargain considering the cost of sending a razor of unknown quality out to be repaired, honed and shipped. Classified razors are being sold by people who use SRs and know that what they are selling will give good service rather than razors being sold by people who do not use, care about, or know anything about the razor they are selling.

A good razor that is not shave ready cannot shave well and will be a disappointment until it is made shave ready.

A used or new razor that cannot be made shave ready because it is badly abused or worn, is made of poor steel, has a poor heat treat, or has bad geometry will always be a disappointment.

Razors have very thin edges to make them easier to hone and sharp enough for good shaving. The thin edge requires the finest steel, heat treatment and geometry to stand up to the stresses of shaving. For this reason, only the most skilled cutlers were usually assigned to make a companies razors. A bad razor will chip or roll its edge easily and may never become shave ready or stay shave ready long enough for acceptable service.

Be careful when selecting stones for use on razors. Many stones used to sharpen knives and tools are much too course for sharpening razors and will heavily wear or damage a straight razor. Stones for use on razors must be of very fine grit and lapped flat before use. Such stones are are not cheap and are usually obtained from specialty woodworking stores (cabinet making, wood carving, etc.), specialty knife stores, and razor vendors rather than a local hardware store. I suggest looking into pasted strops and lapping film/sand paper posts for inexpensive razor maintenance while you are learning and deciding whether SR shaving is for you.

HTH


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[QUOTE=ischiapp;1192667]At the beginning, not sure about SR fit or not for me ... i've taken a Gold Dollar 100
Gold Dollar 100 Barber Straight Cut Razor High Carbon Steel Blade Shaver GD100 | eBay
Really slow to hone, but it works.[QUOTE]

By that, you mean it can be sharpened and it can be shaved with, with satisfactory results? Have you actually used one of these? Because that looks like a crazy low price compared with the $80 to $100 I am hearing for a just good enough entry level straight razor. If you have actually got good shaves from one of these I might look into getting one, maybe also getting one of those Dovo straight razors too. Somebody told me I ought to have more than one, to give each one a rest between shaves. But maybe more logically, I might mess one up so that it needs resharpening, and I would still have the other one for shaving. I don't care if it is slow to hone, as long as it can be done and I will be able to shave with it and not look like I fell drunk into the sticker bushes. (done that, actually!)

Quote:

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And i use AlOx lapping film. :D
If you are sure about SR, take a look on this pakistani set
Sovereign Straight Cutthroat Razor with Badger Brush Strop Shaving Set | eBay

Not need hundreds dollars to shave :gl:

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This lapping film is for sharpening? Is it better than sharpening stones? I think I should start with a professionally sharpened one to begin with, but I will definitely want to learn pretty early to sharpen these things myself instead of relying on sending my razor out to others and paying to have it done all the time and waiting for it to come back to me. I already have access to sharpening stones and I know some are fine enough for razors. Some of my Dad's are smooth and shiny as glass and take like thousands of strokes to get anything done. And of course he has coarse ones and everything in between. I gather from reading that you usually start out coarse to set a bevel angle, and then use finer and finer stones until it is sharp enough?

That Pakistani set actually looks like a pretty good package for me, but of course not if the razor won't shave. And I am wondering just how professional a vendor is, who describes a lightning sharp blade that is held against the face and neck for de whiskering, like this:

"1x STRAIGHT CUTHROAT RAZOR WHICH HAS A BEAUTIFUL MARBLE EFFECT HANDLE AS WELL AS BEAUTIFULLY TAPPERED & ARCHED BLADE."

Even I can see that the guy was struggling to find something good to say about the straight razor in his set! But the question that answers the question is, WILL IT SHAVE? because a lot of guys seem to be of the opinion that it will not. Anyone who can conclusively state that it will or won't from their own expert experience I would love to hear from!

So Dovo is the best brand? What makes them the best? Not criticizing or doubting... I just want to understand the reasoning so I am not simply blindly following advice however good it might be, without knowing why it was given and why I am following it and what would happen if I didn't.

Thanks again for everyone's posts! I read each one and I promise to answer more of them when I have time! Hope I don't sound like I already have opinions and won't listen, because I truly do value your advice and experience.

There are lists in the Library (wiki) here that give the names or razors to avoid.... The real problem is the names change nearly every week, as the Pakistani and the Chinese companies will make them to spec, so it is hard to keep up on each name...
This is why you read "Stay Away" from so many people, mostly because we don't have the time to keep testing each new name...


Basically anything Pakistani is mostly junk there are a few that can hold an edge but they are few and far between and basically a crap shoot, and the edge fails rather quickly even if you can get one there...

Chinese razors are pretty bad too, some are made as knives and don't have the geometry to hold the edge or the steel and temper..

The Gold Dollars have ok steel but the geometry and grind errors on over 50% of them do not make them easy to hone and set up, there is a huge thread on here with tons of info on them and the older Double Arrows... We got so sick of the "Discussion" because they are so inconsistent we just started putting all the posts together in that thread, if they were all bad there would be no discussion or if they were all good.. but they are 50-50 so some like them and some hate them...

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...ld-dollar.html


And yes I have honed just about every one of them I can get my hands on just to test them, haven't found many that will shave so the odds are against you

It is however your money and your time so let us know if you get one to shave

If you want a really good value brush, you can get a good silvertip from Larry at Whipped Dog Straight Razor Shaving Equipment for $30 or less and everyone loves his brushes (they're out of stock right now but will get more in a week or two). He also has Col. Conk branded Dovo Best Quality 5/8 and 6/8 in case you can't find a Dovo BQ in stock on SRD. They come in red scales and the 6/8 also comes in pearl.
They come shave ready and his shipping is either free or very cheap. I'm expecting a 6/8 in pearl and a rich man strop shortly.