razor burn

Hi Guys,
I know DE's and Straights are like comparing apples and oranges. As it stands, even with a M3, or a DE I can only shave every 3 days, anything less I get razor burn. This evening I shaved with a DE, used good mug soap (from St Charles Shaves),with a Gillette Tech with a new persona blade.

My pre-shave ritual is to shower, while I'm showering I allow the brush and my shaving mug to sit in a sink of hot water.

After showering, I mix the lather and shave. This evening I added a step, I used some "King of Shaves advanced Shaving Oil" before lathering up. I think this will work well, but I still got a pretty good razor burn.

Will a Straight be any different? Is there anything I can do differently to prevent this?
Tony

I'm still awaiting my purchases in order to jump in and do my first straight shave ever, so I can't give you much advice on this issue - I can sympathize however...for God's sake, look at my username! I have quite sensitive skin, and am hoping that the switch to straights will help with my burn.

Obviously, I haven't made the switch yet, but even though I am still using my Fusion, I have focused a lot on my beard prep, I have a good moisturizing cream, and I am making sure to keep my skin taut as I shave - this seems to make a world of difference as compared to my shaves before coming to SRP. A lot less irritation. I end it all with a cooling balm - no alcohol.

I'm still waiting for my first Straight as well. Fud is honing a couple of my razors. What kind of cooling balm do you use? I finished my shave off with Master's Bay Rum (I absolutely love the smell of this!). I'm not sure what percentage of alcohol it has, but this evening it really burned. Mainly my neck area either side of my beard. The rest of my face was fine with it, so I'm guessing it was the razor burn and not the bay rum.

Tony,

If I shave every day, I get razor burn as well using a straight. It is limited to 2 spots on my chin and the underside of my chin.

Having said that, I touched up the edge of my razor last night using traditional X-pattern on my Norton (something I haven't done before) and the result was notable. I also flattened out the razor on those trouble spots and I got just a minimal amount of burn this time and I had shaved only a little over 24 hours from my last shaving.

I think with a properly honed razor, the right soap and a light touch with a proper blade angle, you should eventually get rid of most of the burn.

One more thing, I finish off with straight witch hazel most of the time. It's cool, refreshing, healing and has less alcohol than normal a/s so I give my skin time to heal before splashing on the heavy alcohol content a/s

Freebird,

As of now, I am only using the Nivea aftershave balm for sensitive skin - it has a pretty good cooling effect, and it has absolutely no alcohol. It has aloe and all those other good things to help make your skin feel better and protect the new (and sometimes RAW) skin.

There are probably better products - I hear Trumper's Coral Skin Food is great - I have no experience with it (yet), and it costs significantly more than the Nivea.

I just had one of those "Duh" moments lol :thinking:The next time I shower/shave I'm changing the shower soap....I've been using Axe brand "Snake Peel" which is rather gritty to exfoliate the skin....I wonder if that may have caused the burn this evening. I'll try that, but that still leaves the 3 day no-shave rule. When I start shaving with a straight I'll see how things goes, plus get rid of the snake peel.

I'll have to look for the Nivea, I believe Wal-Mart carries that brand here. Where I live most of our shopping has to be done at Wal-Mart or Sally's Beauty Supply lol. Sometimes I can sneak into Tulsa, but it's a 40 mile drive one way and I don't make it too often since I'm not working there anymore.

I can't shave everyday with a cartridge razor - too much razor burn. But I have been able to use a straight virtually everyday. Once your skin gets use to it (maybe a couple of weeks) and you develop good technique, it might be a little kinder on your face than the other methods. I think it's all about good prep, good soap, and good technique. I also like Thayer's witch hazel products. Later,

Justin

As for aftershave balm Yves Rocher works better for me than Nivea:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/showthread.php?t=10116

I don't know about shaving cream they also sell - must try it.

Tony,

My skin seems somewhat sensitive, and burn and irritation has been a problem for me, too.

I've found that the key to fighting irritation is limiting the number of times the blade goes over your skin. When I was DE shaving, the Tech actually gave me worse razor burn because it's so gentle that I had to do a lot of passes to get my face clean. A more aggressive Superspeed cleared more on the first pass, which meant I was less tempted to go over and over the trouble spots.

With my straights, I've found that a wicked sharp blade works best for me. Steve mentioned he can shave off the 8K Norton, and a lot of other guys have said the same thing, but right now that doesn't work for me. I have to go to 1 micron diamond paste followed by chromium oxide to get an edge that'll keep the irritation down. (Maybe someday my honing will get to the point where the 8K is enough, but I'm not quite there yet.)

While a lot of guys have luck with lowering the blade angle on their chin, I actually find that keeping it at 30 degrees--or even a little more--is helpful, especially on the with-the-grain pass. The aggressive approach is risky but it means there's less need to go back with more strokes later on. Using a light touch is extra important when you're using aggressive angles.

Just some food for thought,
Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshEarl

Tony,

My skin seems somewhat sensitive, and burn and irritation has been a problem for me, too.

I've found that the key to fighting irritation is limiting the number of times the blade goes over your skin. When I was DE shaving, the Tech actually gave me worse razor burn because it's so gentle that I had to do a lot of passes to get my face clean. A more aggressive Superspeed cleared more on the first pass, which meant I was less tempted to go over and over the trouble spots.

With my straights, I've found that a wicked sharp blade works best for me. Steve mentioned he can shave off the 8K Norton, and a lot of other guys have said the same thing, but right now that doesn't work for me. I have to go to 1 micron diamond paste followed by chromium oxide to get an edge that'll keep the irritation down. (Maybe someday my honing will get to the point where the 8K is enough, but I'm not quite there yet.)

While a lot of guys have luck with lowering the blade angle on their chin, I actually find that keeping it at 30 degrees--or even a little more--is helpful, especially on the with-the-grain pass. The aggressive approach is risky but it means there's less need to go back with more strokes later on. Using a light touch is extra important when you're using aggressive angles.

Just some food for thought,
Josh

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Josh, I've heard a lot of other people say similar things regarding the chromium oxide. I actually am going to use that tonight and shave with it to see what kind of a difference it makes. I also agree that less passes are better when it comes to razor burn reduction. I try to limit my passes to the standard 3 but if I use the 30 degree angle on my chin (other than WTG) I run into all sorts of burn.

What do you do to get that wicked sharp edge? Is it just the addition of the chrom ox or diamond paste? I'd be interested as I think it might help quite a few of us

You shouldn't be relying on chrome oxide to get "wicked sharp" although it will put a keen edge on the razor it's mostly a crutch, and an addictive crutch at that. You are much better off getting the blade wicked sharp on the hone then giving it just a few laps on the chrome oxide paddle for that extra bit of polish. I use about 20 on my hardwood paddle, which is equivalent to about 5 on my leather-covered paddle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mparker762

You shouldn't be relying on chrome oxide to get "wicked sharp" although it will put a keen edge on the razor it's mostly a crutch, and an addictive crutch at that. You are much better off getting the blade wicked sharp on the hone then giving it just a few laps on the chrome oxide paddle for that extra bit of polish. I use about 20 on my hardwood paddle, which is equivalent to about 5 on my leather-covered paddle.

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I do get a very sharp edge on my Norton. I make sure that this is my main sharpening tool. The extra bit is exactly what I'm looking for but since I've never used it, I was just curious as to what others did. Sorry if I made it sound as if I'm trying to shortcut the process.

Maybe we ought to start a thread on this topic and leave this one for razor burn. I don't want to take Tony's thread away from him.

feel free to continue with this, as it does concern the razor burn issue...and truth be told I'm also gaining knowledge from the posts :D

The product you use before the shave can quite possibly make your skin more susceptible. Same goes for the wrong (wrong for you, I mean) shave soap / cream.

Having said this, I am almost positive that it's a technique issue. I have very sensitive skin, yet I have been able to get irritation-free shaves with relatively dull razors. Light touch is critical but also blade angle and edge relation to direction of growth, stretching and more specifically how you stretch... And yes, fewer passes give less opportunity for an inappropriate angle, aggressive stroke, etc.

I still get razor burn if I shave too aggressive, sharp or dull blade.

Coral Skin Food works best for me. Classes above almost anything else I have tried.

Cheers
Ivo

Mparker,

I agree with your philosophy on getting sharpness from stones, but I just haven't been able to get that final smoothness from my 8K. I don't have a finishing stone right now, so the next best thing is the 1 micron paste on balsa.

My razors do pass the HHT very nicely off the 4K and 8K, which I know is limited in its usefulness but does tell me something. They shave well, but with my coarse beard I just need a little extra sharpness.

One of these days I'm going to send a razor to a true honemeister for finishing on the 8K, to see if it's my honing or my beard. I have had razors finished by other members on stones, though, that just didn't quite do it for me. :shrug:

It's my goal to be able to get a great shave off the 8K. I know you can do it, and you have a pretty tough beard too. I'll keep working at it. :)

Josh

Josh - some of my best shaves came off the 8K. But it's a razor thing, imo.

When I say best - I mean smooth, just wiping the beard. Other worse shaves still come from very sharp razors - sometimes even sharper judging by tests, but these razors just did not feel as nice on my face.

It seems some razors show significant improvement with Belgian, Escher, Swaty, chromium oxide and boron carbide, etc.

Good luck!
Ivo

Edit: forgot to say that smiling edges and / or shorter blades might be easier to handle and let you focus more attention / care on one area. This can help both avoid unnecessary steel over already shaved sections and get a better angle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by freebird

feel free to continue with this, as it does concern the razor burn issue...and truth be told I'm also gaining knowledge from the posts :D

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For me there is less burn with a straight than any other shaving system I have tried for the amount of hair removed. That last part is the most important and bears repetition. I get less burn with a straight for the amount of hair removed. That means that if I go for BBS every day I will start to get burn. I have found that with a DE on the third BBS day I have significant burn, a straight will leave some burn in the same time frame but significantly less. If I shave two passes with the DE I have to take a day off every five or so to avoid burn and have only close shaves not BBS. When I do the same two passes with a straight I get a closer shave I can do day after day throwing in a BBS day here or there without any burn that isn't obviously associated with my own failures in consistent technique. Though I haven't tried it with a straight I assume that if I could force myself to stop after only one pass I would experience no burn ever and I know my first straight pass is closer than a one pass DE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by izlat

When I say best - I mean smooth, just wiping the beard.

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One of my best shaves ever came with my big W&B frameback straight off the 8k. Nowadays I don't worry about it so much, since I've got some higher-grit hones to finish with.

I know there are some pretty inexpensive 12k chinese waterstones suggested by other members - would that be equivalent to a 0.5 micron diamond paste?

With that in mind, if your edge is starting to dull and you want to keen up the edge, could you simply do some passses on a 12k and get the same desired effect as refreshing a blade on a pasted strop? Or is a total honing necessary?

No, 0.5 micron paste is more like 30k-60k grit (depending on which rating system you use).

Freebird and Razorbourne,

First Razor...glad to hear of a fellow NJian and devils fan...welcome aboard (although I am a newbie like you).

Ok, I am in the same boat as you guys in that I have never used the straight yet. I have just been gaining knowledge on this board to get some experience by osmosis so when I do go to the straight, I will hopefully have a decent idea of what I am doing. Right now, like you, I am learing the prep and pleasures (aftershave, etc.) and am now 'wet shaving.'

I still am using the Fusion like Razor every single day. I am in the Navy so I have to shave EVERY SINGLE day or I could get in trouble. :nono: Sometimes I have to even shave twice a day (in the morning and once at night) because I have to be in so early.

Razor burn is still a problem for me. Mostly under my nose/above my chin. No matter what I do, I seem to get some type of razor burn there. Sometimes it is other places as well, but mostly under the nose.

Things I have noticed:
-The more passes I do on my upper lip area, the more razor burn. Unfortunately, I have to do multiple passes (over passes) because I must be cleanly shaven for work.
-Conditioner on the face works. Especially if it is a decent days of growth.
-Some aftershaves have been especially good for soothing and feeling good the whole day - I like a few so if you have questions, about them, let me know
-Razor burn re-aggrevates after/during working out. Don't know why, but it does (at least for me)
-I use a mix of Williams Mug soap and Proraso tub cream for the best lather I can personally get (haven't tried the upper expensive brands yet)
-Moisturizing skin at night with jojoba oil (if I don't shave then) has really been helping keep the skin nice.
-Toner appears to be working nicely.
-More water on face the better - smoother.

Ok, I think that is it for my limited (about a month or so) of wet shaving. Still using the fusion so I don't know what it will be like when I switch over - just awaiting to get a strop and the dvd from Lynn.

Hope this helps. I know I am not that experienced, but maybe any other questions you have I might be able to help you with as one newbie to another.

Damn that was long...

One more thing...I am trying to get BBS every time. It probably contributes to the razor burn, but it feels OH SO GOOD!

Freebird, one more thing...Axe is a body wash. I use the snake peel and the recovery. I like the recovery a bit better but I would NEVER use it on my face.

If need be use a scrub or facial wash - I have some recommendations for those if you want as well.

I think what your seeing here is that there is no one or even a few things that will cause you to either have or not have razor burn when you shave. In theory you should be able to shave with a straight every day and get no burn at all.

I can tell you from experience that I have very sensitive skin and when I first started with a straight I had massive razor burn but as I progressed it became less and less until it all but went away. Whether you get it or not will depend on factors like; your prep and how well your skin likes your soaps, how sharp your razor is, the number of passes you do, the kind of aftershave and after prep you use and the angle you use the blade at. Last and foremost some razors though they can give you a wicked close shave will irritate your skin very easily and they just don't have it in them to shave super comfortable. I have a couple like that. I have a cattaraguas I recently finished honing and it gives a super close shave but it best not be on your face too long because it will leave razorburn very easily. On the opposite side there are razors you could use on your face all day and they would never burn. Sometimes its a matter of just a few more passes on the hone to change things and sometimes they just won't improve and sometimes they will improve by themselves after a few shaves.

So its all these factors and of course your skill level which will improve with time. So don't be surprised if you get burned the first few times.

Mike,

One thing I thought I'd point out is that doing mutiple passes with a multi-blade razor can cause razor burn.

When I was starting out, I was still using my Mach 3 with a brush and soap. Two passes with the M3 and my face was raw.

The reason is the extra blades. With a straight, one pass equals a blade running over your face once. With a Fusion, that's four (or is it five?) blades running over your skin on each stroke. And the first one scrapes off that protective layer of lather... A three pass shave with a Fusion is kind of like doing 15 passes with a straight.

If you need a cartridge razor as an alternative, the guys at Badger & Blade recommend the Gillette Trac II. It's available at Wal-mart for like $5. It has just two blades, and I think the head is fixed to give you more control over the angles.

Just something to consider... :)
Josh

Thanks Guys,
I appreciate the insights! I picked up some Nivea after shave extra soothing balm this afternoon, haven't tried it yet though.

I did hear from Fud, and my straights should be on their way in a day or two, so I figure I'll get my first shave around the middle of next week. :y Will get to start working on my shaving technique now that I'm getting close on my wet shaving. I believe my problem, from everything I've read here is the multiple pass issue, especially with the safety razors I've got at my disposal.

Off topic:
Bear,
Where are you stationed? (or should I ask?) One of my Sister-In-Law's Bro In Law's was in the Navy for years, I've heard stories about the Philippines lol.

Speaking of the Devils, I'm an Islander fan. Have been since I was a kid in the early 70's. Never did get to see a game in person, but did get to watch a couple of their Stanley Cup wins.
Tony

The Islanders? - while I do live on Long Island, that term is like a four-letter word to my ears - almost as horrifying as the term "New York Rangers":D I know - I'm from NY but am a NJ fan - it doesn't make sense.


Freebird - I hope the Nivea works well - try it and let us know.

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Originally Posted by Razorburne

The Islanders? - while I do live on Long Island, that term is like a four-letter word to my ears - almost as horrifying as the term "New York Rangers":D I know - I'm from NY but am a NJ fan - it doesn't make sense.


Freebird - I hope the Nivea works well - try it and let us know.

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Sounds like the way I am with the Stars and the Cowboys. We get them crammed down our throats like there are no other teams in the area, have the Avalanche and the Rams but the local coverage is still all Texas.

The Isles have had major problems for the last umpteen years, but I keep hoping. I don't know what the management is thinking, and those gorton fisherman sweaters they had were horrendous.

I'll try the Nivea tomorrow, (been 3 days, time for a shave again), and let you know.