The beautiful blade of the SRP custom knife by Robert Williams has a curved edge. I'm wondering how one hones such an edge since the blade geometry sure isn't clear and simple (as in straight edges/spines).
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The beautiful blade of the SRP custom knife by Robert Williams has a curved edge. I'm wondering how one hones such an edge since the blade geometry sure isn't clear and simple (as in straight edges/spines).
,,,,,,use a curved stone :shrug:
,,,,,,,just kidding,,,have you viewed any of the honing videos in the Library section?
gssixgun Honing a Smiling Wedge part 1.wmv - YouTube
Yours is a pretty big question... Do some searching in the Honing section for more information and in the meantime check this video out... It is Part I of 3 I believe.
I have been trying to nail a nice big 'ol smiling wedge on eBay so I can start putting some time in with that type of blade but getting my butt kicked every time... So, if I knew more I'd be able to tell you more. ;)
Shawn
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I want to say a swooping motion like an arc... I only have two blades that are curved like and they're mild. It's been a long time since I've had to hone them, so touch ups only recently
Custom knife or a custom razor?Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcrowny
For curved blades I use a narrow hone. If it is a custom blade its creator will be able to tell you how to hone it. I use narrow hones for smiley blades.
Thanks! I hadn't yet watched that vid and will be sure to check them all out. I figured it was essentially what he demonstrated. Much more involved than a straight blade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prahston
Just so it's clear. You're talking about a curved blade similar to the shape of the one in the SRP logo not one that's warped or "smiling" right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcrowny
It is just different Honing Gymnastics :)
The blade of every razor has to glide over the hones equally and evenly period... The difference in technique is to make that happen :)
Heel first and rolling swooping ending if necessary off the spine at the end of the stroke. Or toe first. There are many other ways but this works for me.
Correct, although I'd been under the impression that people were referring to blades like the logo as being "smiling". But I'm talking about a blade that's curved on purpose, just as a scimitar is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenngun
Ja. Which means that it's not going to be as precise as a straight edge. Figured there couldn't be any other approach but wanted to verify.Quote:
Originally Posted by bill3152
Not quite true... Most every razor is not really straight, in fact many people hone them toward a smile because it is a comfortable shave (Look at the old Barber's Manuals)Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcrowny
If you lift the spine then yes you would lose that precise edge and create a wavy edge that you can actually feel when honing.. Many will reference a Rocking X or Rolling X but understand that the spine still stays on the hone at the same time as the edge...
The razor in the logo is a "Smiling blade" the terms are there in the Library to see...
Perfectly flat edges imo have to be honed that way. I dont think I ever saw a new blade perfectly flat. And I would say the spine would stay on the hone if possible. But some of these blades have been honed that way so you gotta kind of follow the leader. On the spine always if possible. And many times you have to lift the toe to get to the heel. So every one is different, can't comment on any specific one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill3152
Lifting the toe while honing the heel is a Rolling or Rocking stroke pick the word you choose :)
BUT
The spine at the heel should still be on the hone, basically the spine is touching when the edge is touching on that spot on the razor...
Does that make sense how I am saying it I am pretty sure it is what you are doing anyway otherwise your edge would pretty wavy
We are on the same page. Spine on. You know this stuff much better than I do I know.
Figured we were saying the same thing, and if we were across the table from each other and could use our hands to talk also there would have been no confusion hehehe
If your stone is wide enough could you hone it using a straight stroke rather than swooping or rocking? Or is this even possible?
Sounds geometrically impossible to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenngun
My faviort video on how to hone a smiling straight razor. Is the one Charlie Lewis put out on YouTube. Just search honing a smiling razor and it comes up
The basic premise is to assume the spine height to blade width ratio is basically constant along the blade. Then, what I do is imagine a "honing window" - just that part of the edge/spine and its immediate surrounds that is touching the hone. Concentrate on keeping the edge and spine in contact with the hone within that window as you move the edge from heel to toe, and you will generally end up with what people call a "rolling" stroke.
James.
Is it safe to resurrect this thread? I know some forums discourage it and would rather have a new thread started, but I came across this in my search for answers. If not I will start a new one.
I have an order in for the SRP LE straight razor and was pondering its geometry. Now I have zero experience honing razors at this time. I feel like I have a decent grasp on the principles of honing from reading and watching what is provided on this site. I know that grasp might come undone the first time my razor makes contact with a hone.
I saw that Kees mentions using a narrow hone for his smilies. This makes sense to me. It seems like it would afford the razor a better opportunity to maintain the proper spine to bevel angle on that portion of the blade. Of course, i would employee the technique gssixgun shows in his video above to access all portions of the blade. A wider hone seems like it would change that angle but I'm not sure it would be detrimental.
I am shopping for hones and strops now and would like to get the equipment that would allow me to get the best results from my work.
Am I over thinking this or would a narrow hone and strop be beneficial?
Thanks.
Spencer
A narrow hone is not beneficial. Honing with the rolling x stroke is, but it can be accomplished on any width of hone. The narrow hone simply forces the correct stroke in order to maintain contact between the edge and the hone.
You can create an imaginary narrow hone by using a pencil to draw a line one inch from the edge of your wide hone. Congrats, you now own a one inch wide hone for smiling blades. Only hone on that narrow surface and you will hone correctly.
I think resurrecting old threads makes more sense than starting new ones as all of the past posts are relevant to the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by sst3wart
When honing a smile, only a narrow area of both the edge and spine are in contact at any time. The rest of the blade is above the plane of the hone. At the Kansas City meet, Randydance was telling me that he did sometimes use the edge of the hone for smiling blades. He could tell from my body language, that I thought that that should not be necessary, and added that it was not necessary but it felt better to him. Fair enough.
Whilst I agree that a narrow hone is not entirely necessary I would say that it makes a rolling stroke easier - especially for an inexperienced honer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
In my opinion:Quote:
Originally Posted by UKRob
It is just as easy, as the stroke is identical, on the imaginary narrow hone I described above.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on that - the narrow hone allows a more exaggerated stroke where both toe and heel can be overhanging the side of a narrow hone - that is not possible with your imaginary one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
I am right handed. I hone with the toe of the blade pointing to my left. The right side of the hone will be the actual edge and the imaginary edge drawn with a pencil will be one inch to the left. At the beginning of either a push or pull stroke the heel will align with the right side of the hone and the toe will overhang the imaginary left side without touching anything past that line. At the end of either stroke the heel will overhang the right side and the toe will be aligned with the imaginary left side's line. This is the same stroke as on an actual narrow hone.
It honestly is the exact same stroke irregardless of whether you are on a 1 inch wide hone or a 3 inch wide hone, the edge and the spine must remain in contact as you adjust the honing gymnastics to accomplish a nice even stroke..
It just doesn't matter, but the myth of a narrow hone continues, we have many of those in this hobby :shrug:
Sitting across the table from beginners and watching them wibble wobbly every stroke they attempt on near every razor and hone I doubt narrow or wide is easier.. Honing a smiling blade like the SRP LE is a learning experience that must be tackled by each new honer and they need to learn to do it on whatever hone is in front of them...
Think about this for just half a minute, many people have Narrow finishers Eschers, CF, Cotis, J-nats, etc;: the majority of these are thinner then a 3 inch wide Synthetic, as you hone a razor through your ladder you don't all of a sudden change the stroke when you get to the top do you ???? You keep the razor in the exact same relation to the hone when you switch from the Norton 8k to the Escher, *** well you do if you want a nice even bevel*** :p
Thanks for the input. I think the prudent course for me to take would be to get a normal sized hone and a budget smilie (if there is one to be found) and practice practice practice. I definitely don't want to learn to hone on the SRP LE. Also, as I'm sure to end up with more razors than I plan on, I would like to be able to maintain them all without having to have "special" sets of hones for this razor or that razor.
I wonder if whipped dog has any smilies in the sight unseen razors he sells.
Regarding thread resurrection, there were some members of a firearm forum I visit that get all up in arms (haha, get it) when someone posts in a thread that has been dead for a while. Thank you for being logical and supportive.
I am really looking forward to this. I tend to be a bit over analytical (just ask SWMBO) when undertaking or purchasing *anything. But it typically results in money well spent with no regrets... although sometimes the money is more than I planned on spending.
Spencer
Maybe you can ask to take a look....:D :rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by sst3wart
Sorry, that just tickled my fancy!
I agree that you don't need a narrow hone to make a rolling stroke easier. It's all about visualisation. On a narrow hone (eg escher/thuringians are often "narrow") you are forced to pay attention to that honing "window" because that one inch or whatever is all you have to play with. I think this is why people think they are easier for a new honer to learn a rolling stroke on.
But as Utopian says, if visualisation is difficult you can always draw a pencil line down a wider hone. The point of a rolling stroke is to move a small window of the edge (an inch or less) along the hone as you move down the hone which of course has nothing to do with the hone dimensions. It's about what you are doing with the razor in the vertical plane.
James.
I did shoot him an email to see if he has any...not too worried about looking though.
Spencer
I for one, am glad this thread has been resurrected. I have a W&B smiley that I once attempted to hone. No joy there! I will have to watch more videos and try again!
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Took me sometime to get back to this as I had to get my 1" Thuringian out to try - you are both correct, when I thought I was overhanging both sides I was wrong. Thanks for correcting my error.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Thanks again for the replies. Rob, your willingness to revisit your technique to test your theories, and furthermore to allow correction is a testament to your integrity. I'm finding that SRP as a whole has integrity in abundance. Thank you.
On another note, I have found and ordered a J Rodgers & Sons straight with a smiling edge from Joel in the classifieds. Woot! My first razor and I'm looking forward to shaving with it. I'm sure it will be a while before I get to hone it, but I will be stropping it before my second shave.
Spencer