In need of honing advice...

Hi everybody,

Firstly, I'd like to apologize for the length of my post, and thank those who will take time to read it.

I have been wanting to use a straight razor for a while now, so when I had a little extra cash, I went and bought a new Dovo razor from a small local shaving supplies store. I also bought a hone (a relatively narrow 4000/8000 Chinese made 60ish dollar stone), a strop (clean fabric on one side and smooth leather on the other), a brush, soap, etc.

I had looked at a lot of videos and forum posts prior to doing this so that I don't do anything stupid while trying to shave or hone/strop for the first time. When I got the razor, I went home, opened the box, stropped it and got ready to shave. The result was extremely disappointing. The blade was sharp enough to "shave" hairs off my arm, and longish whiskers, but DEFINITELY not anywhere near sharp enough for a comfortable shave. At first, I thought: maybe it's just me holding the blade at a wrong angle, so I tried lower and higher angles, without success. I thought maybe I didn't press the blade against my skin hard enough, so I tried that. No difference. After 5 or 6 passes, of which half were against the grain, the best I could get is an cheap electric razor kind of shave. I could still feel the whiskers on my skin. Thankfully, I didn't cut myself, but at that point, my skin was burning.

Anyways, I thought new Dovo razors were supposed to be shave ready, so I went back at the shop and showed them what was going on and they said they'd have it sharpened at no cost. Three weeks later, I got the razor back and it was even worse than before I sent it. I called the shop and asked them and the lady there seemed to say they were using some kind of machine to sharpen the blades... So well, I now know they're full of it...

After all that, I get my new stone wet and start honing, as shown and described on many videos and posts on the Internet. Only problem, I never seem to get it sharp enough to shave. I see guys in YouTube videos do exactly the same thing I seem to do and they grab the blade and pop a hair in mid air, no problem. For me, I have to hold the blade, both ends of the hair and pull kind of hard to finally cut it.

I looked again and again and tried at least 10 times with no success. I wasn't sure if I was pushing the blade hard enough on the stone or not, or if I wasn't using enough water, or if I was going too slow or too fast, so I tried time and time again and the best I could get is slightly sharper than when I got the razor the first time.

I'm obviously new to this, but one would think after so many times, I'd at least see some improvement, but no...

Well, sorry for the lenghty post, but I would very much appreciate if someone who had similar experience when starting could share his secrets with me!

As I'm sure you all know, this is an extremely frustrating situation!

Thank you!

Hi, and welcome to SRP! Don't lose heart. I think most everyone who has started honing on his/her own runs into times like this. I know I sure did.

First of all - where are you located? There may be an experienced member nearby who would be willing to sit down with you and go through the process.

It sounds to me like you are having the most basic problem of all: a bevel that isn't properly set. Dovos do not come shave-ready from the factory, and if they used a machine on it when the store sent it in, IMHO all bets are off. If yours arrived with a bad bevel (i.e. the two sides of the bevel at the edge are not forming a proper V) then all you're doing is polishing the sides of a bad bevel.

For bevel setting, a 1000 stone is generally recommended. You can do it with a 4/8, but it will take time. Lots of time. And if it is a cheap hone, those 4000/8000 ratings should probably be taken with a grain of salt. I have no experience at all with a hone like that, and so cannot comment on whether it's suitable for razors.

In all honesty my advice at this point would be to send the razor out to a pro to be honed. Then when you get it back you will know what a truly shave-ready blade feels like, and you'll have a benchmark for your own honing. Take a look at the Member Services section of the classifieds. You may be surprised how reasonable the cost for a pro honing job is. And trust me, it will be worth every penny.

a proper honing makes all the difference in the world. As for honing it yourself at this stage it certainly possible but not recommended . The reason that so many say send it out is because it is impossible to tell in the beginning what is wrong, the edge or the technique. No one can fix your technique so start with the controlable variable.

Agreement. At this point having it corrected by a pro would be the prudent move. When I began I made sure that my first purchase was a SRD, honed by them, razor. Then I ordered an eBay razor to practice on, knowing that I had a reference point to refer to.

Cheap hone obviously might be the problem, however: machine honing may have destroyed the temper of the blade.

Send it out. Even if shave ready you would know. So many possible issues. Try to find a mentor. Good luck

In addition to what everyone said above, I will give my personal opinion and experience as a newbie with only 2-3 weeks experience.

First one thing that rings out is you did not mention a lapping stone. So how do you know your honing stones are flat.
Second do you have any means of magnifying like a jewelers loupe or dissection scope. A microscope is almost to powerful and has a focus cone so the field of view would be near useless for this purpose.
And Third I also thought popping a hair in mid air was a good test. Its not really what is going on. Read about a hanging hair test (HHT) Now I tried to cut a hair with my razor under the microscope, and when I did, the best angle of cutting was clearly discovered. There is a lot of information on this so you can do some research. Keep in mind that a large unofficial census of official shavers find that HHT test has nothing to do with a razors shaving ability "so I've read".

Again, I'm a novice in every aspect of straight razors. But I did just remove a chip and set a bevel to a shaving state on my new 3 week old razor; or, so I believe because I only had one shave prior to the chip which was caused by me dropping my razor onto a tile floor. But what I thought I knew when I started honing turned out to be only a small fraction of information. You see most razors are not "straight" even new ones in various price ranges. So, there is an observation period of the honing process where you can see how the razor takes an edge on the stone. I could go on and on and most likely be correct with some information and mostly wrong with the rest.

The advice of others to send it out is good advise. Advise I didn't take because: 1. I m stubborn and want to learn. 2. I happen to have had a large selection of water stones and a dissection scope. 3. I have all of this because I have been sharpening my fine kitchen knives such as a Japanese Gyuto for some time. So I'm not new to honing and polishing. But I am new to honing and polishing a straight razor. And I can tell you it's tricky: not impossible, but tricky.

Now you need to ask yourself if you are ready to take an extremely focused approach to learn about straight razor sharpening? If so, than I say jump in and learn to swim.
Or if this is still something you "think" your interested in then keep that interest and have someone sharpen it for you. I know Straight Razor Designs (SRD on the forum in case you didn't know) will do it but it will take a few weeks to return and the price is $25 plus round trip shipping.

Now I don't know your financial situation so forgive me If I sound to eager to spend your money. Straight Razor designs has a PROFESSIONALLY SHARPENED DOVO BEST QUALITY BLOND 5/8" on sale and in stock for $79+ shipping and tax. (Forgive me moderators If posting this sale item is against the rules). If you order this you could have it in a few days. You would then know what a razor should feel like. This is where I purchased mine, and this is where I plan on purchasing my next razor when they get the style I like in stock. I need to have a professionally sharpen razor so I know where I need to improve on my sharpening skills.

If you do order the new razor and like shaving with a straight razor "I think you will based on your effort thus far to get a good shave" Then have the other sent out for sharpening or use that as the razor you learn to hone.

Hello everyone and thank you for your feedback.

My razor is a Dovo Astrale, which I like a lot. I think you have a good point about the bevel being wrong. It makes sense. Also, I have been trying to hone it quite a bit, so I suppose it might be over-honed as well.

Sending it to be honed by a pro sounds like a good plan for right now.
I do want to learn how to hone it, but I need the right tools and technique. I think I will buy a cheap razor off eBay, as suggested, and practice on that.
I have never really used a strop before, but the technique does not seem particularly complicated.
Would you have any recommendation for a good stone and strop and where to buy them? I live in Quebec City, Canada, so maybe Canadians can give me better advice, as not all shops will ship to Canada.

Thank you again!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirty302

Hello everyone and thank you for your feedback.

My razor is a Dovo Astrale, which I like a lot. I think you have a good point about the bevel being wrong. It makes sense. Also, I have been trying to hone it quite a bit, so I suppose it might be over-honed as well.

Sending it to be honed by a pro sounds like a good plan for right now.
I do want to learn how to hone it, but I need the right tools and technique. I think I will buy a cheap razor off eBay, as suggested, and practice on that.
I have never really used a strop before, but the technique does not seem particularly complicated.
Would you have any recommendation for a good stone and strop and where to buy them? I live in Quebec City, Canada, so maybe Canadians can give me better advice, as not all shops will ship to Canada.

Thank you again!

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Ok I'm Canadian. I don't know of any shops in your area but here in ontario the Classic Edge is a great shop. They can be found online. I ordered my first straight from Phil (owner) and it came shave ready. He also hones for a fee and can set you up with a great strop, and the hones. I currently use a Norton 1K and 4/8K combi, I also have a small Coti and a larger one. I''m focusing on the Combi stones 8K side, once I get a truely shave ready edge from it I will move on and learn the Coti's. If you do decide to order anything or get your razor honed by Phil let me suggest that you also pick up or buy in a local store a package of Double edge blades. You can use these as a baseline for the Thumb nail and Thumb Pad tests while you are learning to hone (the DE blades can take the place of a shave ready razor especially if you only have one razor and want to use it to shave with). I purchased a 3" english bridle strop from Classic edge AFTER I was done cutting my first (cheaper) strop to shreds, while I learned to strop. You are right there is nothing technically difficult about stropping, nor is there anything technically difficult abotu shaving with a straight OR honing, but that doesn't mean it's not difficult! There is a certain finesse needed for all of it, honing, shaving, stropping, that from what I gather comes only with experience (which I am slowly getting more of each day). I have had some terrible shaves, but I've also had terrible games of golf, but I keep coming back to it! Stick with it my friend, it'll all come together.

As for the cheap Ebay razor for learning purposes, let me offer a caveat, that may not be the most beneficial move. I have 19 razors, all but one came from Ebay/flea markets/yard sales. Some of those razors have warps and other "issues" that make them especially hard to hone, even harder than your brand new Astrale. You might be much better off getting yours honed and learning how to maintain an already shave ready edge on a strop, then expand to a balsa board (or extra strop) with cromium. Once you've got those things under your belt and your comfortable (and had time to do lots of reading and video watching) get yourself some hones of known quality (i.e. Norton, Shapton, Naniwa) and learn on a blade you know can be honed to shave ready by someone with experience, like your Astrale, or get another razor that's got no known issues (like from the classifieds here) and learn on that. Trust me, Ebay blades with all their potential for "issues" is a very frustrating way to learn how to hone, and on top of that the shave tests can be ludicrusly painful!

Hope some of this rambling helps you. Aslo, someone mentioned lapping the stone you currently have, that's a good idea. I haven't heard of any stone (maybe except the Shaptons?) coming perfectly flat out of the box. Stones need to be lapped flat for razor honing.

Good luck and stick with it my friend.