Exccessive dulling? Please help...

Hey all,

Still a newbie to SR shaving, and while I am a dozen or so shaves in with enough success to keep me wanting to come back for more, I am finding myself with a razor seeming to dull a bit faster than I would have expected. It is a vintage Bismarck that I fixed up myself. I have quite a bit of experience sharpening as I collect and use pocket knives as well as woodworking hand tools, so I found honing a razor came fairly easily to me. I am taking care of it, having honed the first time from a 1k King (shaped the bevel), to a 4k then 8k Norton, and then up to a 13k Sigma Power Select II, finishing on a hard backed horse hide strop charge with green compound (.5 micron) then finishing on another hard back HH strop bare. The entire time I am using the spine to register the bevel.This thing gets as sharp as sharp can be and initially shaves great, But after just a couple shaves (stropping on leather in between) it seems to dull quite quickly, Heck... I seem to notice it from beginning to end of the same shave changing a bit. It is now to the point where I find the stropping does not seem to get it just quite good enough (even with the green compound). I mean can shave with it but not near as easily as when it was freshly honed. It feels like it is resisting so much more than before.

I am wondering if it is possible something could be contributing to its dulling that I have not considered. One of the things I have been questioning is whether or not hot or cold water rinsing would have any effect on the wear, as in the steel being warm or cold during my shave. Is this thought ridiculous? I have also started shaving a second ATG pass going back about 5/6 shaves or so. Does this contribute to accelerated dulling? I do have quite course beard hair so this maybe be part of it as well...

Maybe this is normal and I am just expecting to much durability from my edge but I keep reading about you guys honing only once in a blue moon, and I already feel the need to re-hone this sucker (after not even 3 weeks!). At least taking it back to my 8k stone and back up again...

Thoughts?

There are many causes of premature dulling:

-Poor beard prep
-Poor stropping
-Poor shaving technique
-Poor razor storage

This, of course, excludes the razor itself. Bismarck is a good name, so steel quality shouldn't be an issue.

Unfortunately it is up to you to determine, one by one, which factor is the culprit. In the meantime don't suffer through bad shaves; if your razor needs a touch up do what it takes to make it shave comfortably again.

This is all fairly normal too. With experience you'll find your edges lasting longer and longer.

I agree with Ryan. I would add honing to his list.

I had a similar situation when I first started honing. I also hone my kitchen knives, pocket knives, and hand tools, but straight razors are a different story. I eventually figured out that the culprit in my case was not setting the bevel properly on my 1K waterstone. When I took my time and made sure that my bevel was spot on, then after honing, my razor's edge stayed sharp during my shaves. The bevel is (normally) your starting point when honing, so make sure to get it right the first time.

In my case, I was using my new Dovo Best Quality 6/8, and went from 1K, 4K, and 8K, then stropped, and got a shaving edge. However, after a few shaves, I noticed that my razor was getting dull and all the stropping in the world wouldn't help. I knew it wasn't my stropping because I purchased the razor new and shave ready from SRD, the razor never got dull quickly, and my stropping was unchanged. My shaving prep, technique, and razor storage were also unchanged. The only new variable was my honing process.

As Ryan said the bismarks are considered good razors. Make sure you do atleast 50 - 70 laps on leather between shaves. Your angles can cause blunting or the feeling of blunting aswell. Try eliminate 1 issue at a time till you know the answer. Changing everything may work but you won't know the cause.

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Originally Posted by henryconchile

I agree with Ryan. I would add honing to his list.

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Good point :)

I should have added that I was assuming the blade was truly shave ready first: properly set bevel, edge that is not microchipping etc.

I suppose my list is what can go wrong above and beyond the razor itself lol

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

There are many causes of premature dulling:

This, of course, excludes the razor itself. Bismarck is a good name, so steel quality shouldn't be an issue.

.

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There is a possibility that sometime in the past someone may have ruined the temper of the blade with polishing or....?

Hey thanks guys!

Well I am pretty certain there are certainly going to be errors in my technique with both shaving and honing, but I am going to work through them and carry on bravely. At this point I have read all your comments and critiques and decided I would go back to square one and start from scratch paying attention as to which things are changing things for the good or bad.

I went back and spent the last hour and a half and re-honed completely from 1k back up through the grits, again finishing on bare leather, taking my time and being extremely careful to keep my angle the same all along, riding the spine the entire time with almost zero pressure letting the stones and strops do all the work. I can now pass the hanging hair test without barely touching the hair. Tonight I will do another shave and see how we end up...

One question that nobody touched on, and that may be because it is a dumb question, but I will ask again just in case it just got glossed over...

Does rinsing your razor between passes with cold or hot water have any different effect from each other?

I have done both and noticed no difference

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Originally Posted by bobbybirds

Does rinsing your razor between passes with cold or hot water have any different effect from each other?

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I've done it both ways and haven't noticed a difference in my shaves. I use a hot water rinse nowadays because it removes the soap/cream from the razor much faster than a cold water rinse.

How many laps did you make on the 13K?

How many laps on the charged strop?

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Originally Posted by unit

How many laps did you make on the 13K?

How many laps on the charged strop?

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I did 100 passes each side (alternating of course) on the 13k stone, and then followed up with 100 passes on the charged strop and 100 more on bare leather...

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Originally Posted by bobbybirds

I did 100 passes each side (alternating of course) on the 13k stone, and then followed up with 100 passes on the charged strop and 100 more on bare leather...

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There's your problem.

With a high grit finisher the most laps you should have to do is in the region of 12, even less. Paste should be about the same.

I'd say you made a toothy or fragile edge that broke off after a shave or two. That's usually what happens.

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

There's your problem.

With a high grit finisher the most laps you should have to do is in the region of 12, even less. Paste should be about the same.

I'd say you made a toothy or fragile edge that broke off after a shave or two. That's usually what happens.

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Okay! I will try this next go and see how we end up... Thanks for that!

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

There's your problem.

With a high grit finisher the most laps you should have to do is in the region of 12, even less. Paste should be about the same.

I'd say you made a toothy or fragile edge that broke off after a shave or two. That's usually what happens.

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;)

I had a feeling. This was a stumbling block for me (and my knife honing background) when I started razor honing.

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Originally Posted by bobbybirds

Okay! I will try this next go and see how we end up... Thanks for that!

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I would suggest NOT using the charged strop or the 13K. See what you can do with just the 8K, and a bare strop. Only when you have accomplished some great shave ready edges with the 8K should you muddy the waters with finishers (in my opinion).

okay... Just finished shaving with my freshly honed Bismarck and it worked like awesome from beginning to end! Even did an ATG pas with no issue of dulling. That said, I would like to keep this type of condition going. If stopping on bare leather only now, how many passes should I be doing before shaving next? If I start noticing the edge degrading early, what would my next course of action be? going back to 8k? Try a dozen passes or so on the 13k?

Personally, I do 15 linen laps and 30 bare leather laps post shave and 15/60 pre shave. I get perhaps 45-60 shaves before I go to any abrasive.

When I reach for that abrasive it may be a 12k hone or a CrOx loaded strop and I generally do 7 laps and then test shave.

Results and preferences vary. I believe the razor dictates procedure...but once the ideal procedure is used, a razor can go a longer time between touch ups.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

I suppose my list is what can go wrong above and beyond the razor itself lol

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Your help is always appreciated, though. I like lists; keep 'em coming. ;)