Question about BBS-

A question for those who've trodden the path for a while. I've been diligently working on my shaves and am at the point of three passes with touch ups becoming a matter of routine. Shaving is smooth and the rhythm is there. My question has to do with what I'm perceiving at the final stage. I've got the bristles very, very short. Mainly undetectable against the grain. However on the cheek area it's proving difficult to go from "almost there" to "there". I notice that even when I go over the same spot multiple times, I still hear that scheet scheet scheet noise (the "shaving sound") on every stroke. This suggests to me that the hairs aren't getting cut off; just bent over, perhaps, so the noise continues. I'm wondering if this may be telling me that the razor, although quite sharp, is no longer quiiiiite sharp enough and needs to have some touch up.

Both my good blades came shave ready and all I've done so far (with them) is stropping. So it's clear that at some point they'll need to go back on the stones. I was planning to wait until they "let me know" they're ready and I'm thinking maybe this is the way they're doing so? Since I've never brought a blade from shave ready to no-longer shave ready, it's a bit of an unknown for me. So, hoping that those who've gone through the process a few times can either confirm (or not).

If I am shaving with a shave ready blade, and I make an ATG pass on either cheek, the result is that I feel nothing at all moving my hand against the grain. A shave ready blade ought to achieve that level of result. If your blade cannot do this, then it needs work on the hones, perhaps just a touch-up.

I'm no expert but have been at it quite awhile. You'll know when your blade is no longer shave ready- the shaves will pull and tug and you won't be able to achieve BBS comfortably at all- not just in some places. As far as BBS goes, some areas are just so difficult that you'll never achieve them. I wonder often on some areas if it's not the stretching of the skin that is popping the hairs back up into feel. I know that when I touch up- and I admittedly cheat with a DE for touch up- that there is one area under my right chin that will NEVER get BBS no matter what I do- even using a feather blade and I'm pretty confident with my technique now. However, when I release the skin I no longer feel the hairs which leads me t believe that stretching brings (obviously) the hair follicles up higher. I wouldn't drive yourself crazy with areas like that. I did and still do sometimes and only wind up with irritation, and razor burn. If you're getting BBS on most areas thats a plus in my book and a success!
Hope that helps in some small way-
Tony

If your final pass is ATG (which is required for true BBS) your razor needs to be at optimal sharpness and your technique spot-on. There are certain strokes that help, like blade buffing and low angle scything, but you really have to be confident in your abilities to pull it off without bloodshed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ace

If I am shaving with a shave ready blade, and I make an ATG pass on either cheek, the result is that I feel nothing at all moving my hand against the grain. A shave ready blade ought to achieve that level of result. If your blade cannot do this, then it needs work on the hones, perhaps just a touch-up.

---

What he said, most likely a barber stone will do the trick.

I have an area just below the cheek bone, extending in toward the nose that will not get BBS if I stretch the skin.

I have to let the skin bunch up for lack of a better term.

If you have watched some of the barber shave videos primarily the ones from Indonesia and such they use the technique.

Just a reminder to take care at the no sound point.
If you don't get any shaving sounds you are exfoliating . :)

Final pass is ATG. Definitely wasn't able to do it for a while. Now I've got it down, I believe. Both low angle and a scooping motion under the jaw. The under-jaw region, which used to be "I can't do it at all, I'm putting my blade down" is now the best area, surprisingly.

Thanks; that's what I suspected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anthogia

I'm no expert but have been at it quite awhile. You'll know when your blade is no longer shave ready- the shaves will pull and tug and you won't be able to achieve BBS comfortably at all- not just in some places. As far as BBS goes, some areas are just so difficult that you'll never achieve them. I wonder often on some areas if it's not the stretching of the skin that is popping the hairs back up into feel. I know that when I touch up- and I admittedly cheat with a DE for touch up- that there is one area under my right chin that will NEVER get BBS no matter what I do- even using a feather blade and I'm pretty confident with my technique now. However, when I release the skin I no longer feel the hairs which leads me t believe that stretching brings (obviously) the hair follicles up higher. I wouldn't drive yourself crazy with areas like that. I did and still do sometimes and only wind up with irritation, and razor burn. If you're getting BBS on most areas thats a plus in my book and a success!
Hope that helps in some small way-
Tony

---

Actually, I've had the opposite experience. When I stretch the skin I can't feel the bristles but when the skin is relaxed I can (running my finger ATG). Which would mean, of course, that even though I cut all the hair when the skin is pulled, I'll lose that BBS when I stop pulling. For that reason I try to have the skin relatively relaxed during the 3rd pass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Just a reminder to take care at the no sound point.
If you don't get any shaving sounds you are exfoliating . :)

---

Is that like de-skinifying? ;-)

I don't really chase a BBS shave anymore...on the whole, a DFS does me just fine.

YMMV!

When I take the time I am getting right near to just right. I went and saw Womble the (78 year old) barber the other day. I'm 62 and he calls me, "Sonny."

He asked "How you been getting along with trying to slit your throat?" and did a smug chuckle. I told him "I think I'm doing pretty well, Mr. Womble, thanks."

In a flash that mean old bastage stuck out the backside of his index finger and lightly swiped it down along the underside of my jawline, made a regular Womble squinty face and said, "You still have a ways to go, Sonny. Heh heh heh."

Four months of diligent shaving, sweating the details, does not pass the Womble test. Keep at it, Sonny.

I agree with Phrank - BBS just isn't a goal I set myself nowadays. It's up to the individual of course, but if the only way someone can tell the difference between my shave and what others would consider a BBS shave is to wipe their hands upon my face looking for traces of stubble, well.... let's just say that that hasn't been an issue for me since I gave up being a drag queen. :)

Jimbolina

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Headcrowny

Actually, I've had the opposite experience. When I stretch the skin I can't feel the bristles but when the skin is relaxed I can (running my finger ATG). Which would mean, of course, that even though I cut all the hair when the skin is pulled, I'll lose that BBS when I stop pulling. For that reason I try to have the skin relatively relaxed during the 3rd pass.

---

If you're pulling the skin in the direction that the hair grows, it'll cause the hair to lay more flat. You probably already knew that but in case it wasn't apparent, its a tip that might help. I always strive for BBS. When I made the switch from a DE to a SR, I figured if I can't do as good or better of a job with the SR there's no point in making the switch. Its one of the things that I took with me in the switch. Its seems as though most DE shavers are after the perfect shave and go through the trouble to figure out the best combinations in order to get there. The SR community seems less into obtaining that perfect shave and more into the hardware. If you're having a good time with it, there's nothing wrong with either perspective. It took me a while to figure out how to achieve that BBS shave every time but tackling every problem area one at a time finally paid dividends. But a good edge is essential.

If I want a total BBS shave I pull out the old antique electric shaver and the electric pre shave and in 10 minutes I have the smoothest BBS all over my face and neck the world has ever seen. Unfortunately, 4 hours later I need to shave again.

I stopped worrying about BBS a long time ago. Usually after I'm done with a straight 90% is BBS and the 10% that isn't ain't nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterMoo

Four months of diligent shaving, sweating the details, does not pass the Womble test. Keep at it, Sonny.

---

Great story, reminds me of the good ol' "credit card" test they do in the army. In always thought that was BS until I talked to some guys from the Canadian armed forces a few years ago and they assured me it's true. How's THAT for being under the microscope?

I also don't chase BBS. Sometimes it's there sometimes it's not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterMoo

When I take the time I am getting right near to just right. I went and saw Womble the (78 year old) barber the other day. I'm 62 and he calls me, "Sonny."

He asked "How you been getting along with trying to slit your throat?" and did a smug chuckle. I told him "I think I'm doing pretty well, Mr. Womble, thanks."

In a flash that mean old bastage stuck out the backside of his index finger and lightly swiped it down along the underside of my jawline, made a regular Womble squinty face and said, "You still have a ways to go, Sonny. Heh heh heh."

Four months of diligent shaving, sweating the details, does not pass the Womble test. Keep at it, Sonny.

---

Down along the underside or up? Getting it glass smooth "down" is monstrously easy. Getting it smooth "up" is the tough one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryan82

Great story, reminds me of the good ol' "credit card" test they do in the army. In always thought that was BS until I talked to some guys from the Canadian armed forces a few years ago and they assured me it's true. How's THAT for being under the microscope?

---

I've never heard of the CC test. Tell me more.

I really don't chase a BBS much I chase comfort, but here is a trick I learned that works well for when you want to chase BBS

Clear water final pass, relaxed face no stretching, using a very very light touch, that gets me the closest shave when I go for it


That's it, my only contribution that I can offer hehehehe

With one wtg pass, I get a smooth face with the grain and that is close enough for me. I am not concerned about delaying the appearance of the 5 o'clock shadow. No matter how many passes and how bbs I can get, I still need to shave the next morning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Headcrowny

Getting it glass smooth "down" is monstrously easy. Getting it smooth "up" is the tough one.

---

"...down along the underside of my jawline..." means (for me) that stretch below the jaw between ear lobe and chin. If we're talking about the same stretch of real estate I guess grain directions vary. All I know is Womble's been barbering professionally for 55 years and he knows where to find proof of technique in a New York second. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Headcrowny

Down along the underside or up? Getting it glass smooth "down" is monstrously easy. Getting it smooth "up" is the tough one.

---

Depends which side of my jaw I try. LHS is smooth down, RHS is smooth up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I really don't chase a BBS much I chase comfort, but here is a trick I learned that works well for when you want to chase BBS

Clear water final pass, relaxed face no stretching, using a very very light touch, that gets me the closest shave when I go for it


That's it, my only contribution that I can offer hehehehe

---

This works very well for me also. Especially if I don't wipe but just rinse the lather off. It seems slicker than with the lather on and really gets it smooth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Headcrowny

I've never heard of the CC test. Tell me more.

---

The credit card test is when the CO or DS, while inspecting the troops, pulls out a credit card and runs the edge along the soldiers' faces, especially ATG. If he hears any sound other than smooth skin it's considered a failed inspection.

That CC test must be an Army thing, never suffered that in the Navy. I fear that we would have all failed especially the hands with the beards. :dropjaw:

Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 10Pups

This works very well for me also. Especially if I don't wipe but just rinse the lather off. It seems slicker than with the lather on and really gets it smooth.

---

I'm going to try that when I shave today!

Second run with the DD Goldedge...wasn't really knocked out with the first shave with it, so have used the CrOx, the white paste on the linen, and several good sessions of stropping over the last couple of days.

Beautiful razor, it's also probably down to the fact that it's a new blade for me, seemed to tug and pull a bit the first go round.

edited to add: Shaved again with the DD, I think this blade hates me! I have received more cuts and knicks from this blade then I've accumulated all year!! Decided to use the training I received on the coti, got a slurry, ran the blade about 20 laps a side, then another with just water, then the CrOx, then the linen, and then the strop.

I noticed that when I was using the coti, that the heel of the blade was producing a dark color in the slurry, this went away after a few laps. The blade was honed not long ago and stored properly. Anyhow, after the session on the coti, oiled it up and put it away for another time. Impatience and frustration are not good emotions to have in this sport. Think I'm going to take a week or so off and let me face completely heal up. For all I know, the cuts were the result of me shaving over not quite healed previous nicks and cuts. Going to go back to an old standby after healing is complete.

Don't want to be on the forum six hours from now with a twisted, splinter of a blade left !! haha.

So I will leave this, for another time, and a better mood :banghead:

I was thinking about this yesterday (uh oh). In theory there's no reason why a straight razor cannot give a shave as close or closer than any other kind of razor - it's just an edge touching the skin at the base of a whisker, after all.

Personally I think the secret has to be in the stretching and I'm at a complete loss for an explanation as to why a no-stretching final pass gets some people BBS - perhaps their skin is naturally tauter than mine??

But I would have thought that getting to know your beard growth patterns and stretching so as to raise the hair upright would be the most logical (and safe) way to achieve a very close shave. I think that, for whatever reason, a lot of people stretch up or down only and don't utilise sideways or other angles very often. And I have noticed that there's been a bit of a drop off in advice surrounding mapping beard growth, although that just could be me not paying attention. It used to be a very common piece of advice back in the day.

Anyway, like I said before, BBS doesn't really matter to me - I feel there is a dramatic diminishing return on investment for me trying to achieve it. However, if that's what you want I think the only real way to get there is getting to know your beard growth, stretching, and lots of practice.

James.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I was thinking about this yesterday (uh oh). In theory there's no reason why a straight razor cannot give a shave as close or closer than any other kind of razor - it's just an edge touching the skin at the base of a whisker, after all.


James.

---

I've found that it comes down to being able to position the edge to properly engage the hairs. After having mapped out your beard growth, the next step is figuring out how to hold the razor in the various areas so you can take advantage of this knowledge. A DE or cartridge razor is often more agile when it comes to shaving in various directions. For me, the only way to get that BBS shave is with a good ATG pass. If you can't position the blade for a true ATG pass, you probably won't achieve the BBS shave you might be chasing. Mapping the beard is important but useless if you can't position the razor properly.