please help me get my razor shave ready i have pics of my edge

i have a boker straight razor and am trying to hone it on a norton 4k/8k stone. soaked the stone got a good even scratch pattern on the 4k so then i started on the 8k but its not popping hairs after an hour on the 8k im using no pressure just the blade and using my finger to steady the tip as i cant get the blade to stay level on the stone with one hand.
the stone has been laped by a senior srp member and sucessfully honed to shave ready by that member on my norton i paid him to do it a while ago.
i have soaked the stone for 10mons before starting and cleaned/dipped it 3-4 time during the honing.
here are some pics of the edge at around 20x zoom

this is the tip:

Attachment 145998

here are some pics on the same side:
Attachment 145999
it wont let me post the rest but here they are:
http://i.imgur.com/s4V7rtH.png
http://i.imgur.com/WQ99SXx.png
and here is a pic of the other side of the blade it looks the same all along the edge of this side:
http://i.imgur.com/PKXt8Xe.png

any help would be greatly appreciated

To be honest.Send it back to be pro honed,most SRP members that hone blades will redo it for free,I do not think you are ready to hone Yet.JMO

Here is my opinion, You need to look into the Pyramid method, and make it work for you, I know it seems counter intuitive when you first read it but it truly does work. The main Issue I see you having is that you went to the 4k after having it set by a pro, then prolly went to the 8k too soon, this would mean it will take a very long time to make ready on the 8k but using the pyramid should alleviate that issue.

He made it look to easy didn't he. :<0) As suggested you could try it yourself but watch the video "how to's" 10 times first.

I'd avoid using the finger to steady the toe of the razor. Your photo shows that the toe might be getting more honing than the rest of the blade. Keeping the razor flat on the hone will be facilitated by keeping the elbow of your honing arm level with or above the level of the hone. Not doing so tends to allow the toe to rise as you've experienced. Not fixing that before you hone further won't allow the Pyramid or any other method to produce good results. To my eye, it appears that there is a convex quality to your bevel, meaning that the blade is not always flat on the hone and different areas of the bevel are getting honed variously.

Was it popping arm hairs on the 4K side before going to the 8k side?

Bob

in the last couple of the pics when you zoom in, it looks like there is still a micro bevel so you have missed the actual bevel set possibly.
was the razor honed with tape innitially? & did you hone without tape to change the angle slightly
learnt this the hard way also when honing with no success for ages

See my signature.... Lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ace

I'd avoid using the finger to steady the toe of the razor. Your photo shows that the toe might be getting more honing than the rest of the blade. Keeping the razor flat on the hone will be facilitated by keeping the elbow of your honing arm level with or above the level of the hone. Not doing so tends to allow the toe to rise as you've experienced. Not fixing that before you hone further won't allow the Pyramid or any other method to produce good results. To my eye, it appears that there is a convex quality to your bevel, meaning that the blade is not always flat on the hone and different areas of the bevel are getting honed variously.

---

i am trying to keep me elbow up my desk is quite high though maybe this is an issue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BobH

Was it popping arm hairs on the 4K side before going to the 8k side?

Bob

---

no it wasnt popping hairs on the 4k should it be?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Substance

in the last couple of the pics when you zoom in, it looks like there is still a micro bevel so you have missed the actual bevel set possibly.
was the razor honed with tape innitially? & did you hone without tape to change the angle slightly
learnt this the hard way also when honing with no success for ages

---

i dont know if it was honed with tape initially but i used tape when i honed it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ace

I'd avoid using the finger to steady the toe of the razor. Your photo shows that the toe might be getting more honing than the rest of the blade. Keeping the razor flat on the hone will be facilitated by keeping the elbow of your honing arm level with or above the level of the hone. Not doing so tends to allow the toe to rise as you've experienced. Not fixing that before you hone further won't allow the Pyramid or any other method to produce good results. To my eye, it appears that there is a convex quality to your bevel, meaning that the blade is not always flat on the hone and different areas of the bevel are getting honed variously.

---

ill try with one hand again

If you could post a video of you honing it'd be worth evaluating. I do use two hands, one finger on the toe, but very light.

You've done what you've done now, but I can't help wondering why you dived straight to a 4k? Of course, you might have shaved with it for a year without honing for all I know, but as tempting as it may be, one should (in my opinion) use the least 'invasive' option first. You may have found 20 laps on the 8k would have brought the edge back.

It sounds to me that maybe you're now right back to a bevel setting stage; and with all due respect that may at this stage be beyond you.

I would suggest sending it back out to be brought back to shave ready, and then next time it starts to tug, etc, just doing a few on the 8; or even buying a higher grit stone to refresh the edge.

I'm NO expert, but I've always honed my own razors, and have kept them all shave ready for two years. Generally, I only get the Norton 4/8 out once or twice a year, unless I get a new razor i want to set my own bevel on. The rest of the time (maybe every two to three months for each razor) it's a minimal (10 - 20) laps on the Shapton 16k...

I do hope this helps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stevenn21

no it wasnt popping hairs on the 4k should it be?

---

I do believe so, that is an indication that your bevel is set, I don't think yours is. I would not move up to higher grits till you can cut arm hair off of the 4K.

Bob

This is where I disagree with common knowledge.
I have never been able to get arm hair to pop on anything less than an 8k. I have however gotten it after the 8k and have honed several dozen this way, all great shavers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

If you could post a video of you honing it'd be worth evaluating. I do use two hands, one finger on the toe, but very light.

You've done what you've done now, but I can't help wondering why you dived straight to a 4k? Of course, you might have shaved with it for a year without honing for all I know, but as tempting as it may be, one should (in my opinion) use the least 'invasive' option first. You may have found 20 laps on the 8k would have brought the edge back.

It sounds to me that maybe you're now right back to a bevel setting stage; and with all due respect that may at this stage be beyond you.

I would suggest sending it back out to be brought back to shave ready, and then next time it starts to tug, etc, just doing a few on the 8; or even buying a higher grit stone to refresh the edge.

I'm NO expert, but I've always honed my own razors, and have kept them all shave ready for two years. Generally, I only get the Norton 4/8 out once or twice a year, unless I get a new razor i want to set my own bevel on. The rest of the time (maybe every two to three months for each razor) it's a minimal (10 - 20) laps on the Shapton 16k...

I do hope this helps.

---

once i got it honed to shave ready when i felt it start tugging again(after about 7-10 shaves) i tried using the 8k to bring the edge back but it didnt work i have 400/1000 combi 6000/10000 combi aswell as the 4000/8000 norton

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by souschefdude

This is where I disagree with common knowledge.
I have never been able to get arm hair to pop on anything less than an 8k. I have however gotten it after the 8k and have honed several dozen this way, all great shavers.

---

I would not say pop, I mean easily cut a single hair using different points alone the blade. It is the only test I do and use it to see if my bevel is set when using either a 1K or 3K Nani as a bevel setter. I don't do any other tests of hair cutting at the higher grit levels. Each to their own way I suppose. Regardless I still would suspect an unset bevel. Then again being a beginner at honing what do I know.

Bob

The Bevel has to be set ... Period, there is no shortcut..

There are 3 tests that are used to check a bevel set from toe to heel

TNT = Thumb Nail Test
AHT = Arm Hair Test
TPT = Thumb Pad Test

You have to develop one of these to work ABSOLUTELY without doubt for you, having more then one is better, but not everyone can use all of them effectively, in my case the TNT and the AHT never fail me, the TPT is not reliable enough for me to use...

You can use a DE blade to test your tests and see what the feel should be like, but you have to get the bevel absolutely set otherwise you are doing nothing but polishing the sides of the bevel.. Once you learn how to set a bevel, honing becomes way easier, and more of a matter of learning when enough is enough :)


This is an entire thread dedicated to using only the Norton 4/8 to hone razors, there is more information packed into this one place then you will ever need or want :p

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by souschefdude

This is where I disagree with common knowledge.
I have never been able to get arm hair to pop on anything less than an 8k. I have however gotten it after the 8k and have honed several dozen this way, all great shavers.

---

Good call, I have not been able to tree top arm hair with any blade, freshly pro honed or my own. Old or very fine hair may not tree top at all. I do get HHT flop overs though. But for the HHT, I use a human hair wig I picked up during a special at a beauty supply store.
YMMV
~Richard

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geezer

Good call, I have not been able to tree top arm hair with any blade, freshly pro honed or my own. Old or very fine hair may not tree top at all. I do get HHT flop overs though. But for the HHT, I use a human hair wig I picked up during a special at a beauty supply store.
YMMV
~Richard

---

Please, I am NOT talking about "tree topping" or "popping" arm hair off of a 1K or 3K Nani merely being able to easily cut arm hairs at skin level. Different things altogether.

Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BobH

Please, I am NOT talking about "tree topping" or "popping" arm hair off of a 1K or 3K Nani merely being able to easily cut arm hairs at skin level. Different things altogether.

Bob

---

Honestly Bob, at just about every meet I have been to, there is one person at the table who cannot get the AHT to work for them, I saw one guy fail it with a shave ready edge at the 2009 NC meet..

I am talking at skin level..

I have not found an end all be all test for a bevel set that works for everyone, I thought it was the AHT back in 08, but by 09 I had learned it wasn't, there are 3 good tests, they have to be able to use at least one of them, and trust it...

Glen

Yea, for sure there are other tests to see if the bevel is set. I was just wondering if the OP had done any testing at the 4K level to try and determine if a bevel was set before going on to the 8K level. Anyhow it was just a thought and likely not a good one at that.

Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BobH

Glen

Yea, for sure there are other tests to see if the bevel is set. I was just wondering if the OP had done any testing at the 4K level to try and determine if a bevel was set before going on to the 8K level. Anyhow it was just a thought and likely not a good one at that.

Bob

---

No i didnt do any tests at the 4k

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stevenn21

No i didnt do any tests at the 4k

---

For me, I can shave leg hair at 4 before I go on to the 8. I don't 'pop' them, I don't suspend them in the air and chop them, I don't calibrate them, I just shave them. But I ensure I can shave them well, cleanly, and without leaving some untouched. If not, I persevere on the 4k. Then, when they shave 'OK' (not great, but OK) I go to the 8. If I go to the 8 too early I'll never get there. But, from there I do pyramids on the 4/8 and then on to the 16 for a final polish, maybe only 20 laps, or maybe even a small pyramid between the 8 and 19.

My advice is go back to the 4 until you get it to shave arm or leg hair quite well, then progress to a 4/8 pyramid. That's simply what I'd do.

The hones I use are a Norton 4/8 and a Shapton 16k.

What Carl said about testing at the bevel setting stage/grit level before moving on up the progression.

Bob