Honing newb...Feels like my blade "bit" the hone

Trying to ge a satisfactory sharpness from the small 3/8 Filarmonica blade ($40 semi-practice investment), and it most certainly needed honing.
I started with a pyramid, but during one of my last runs on the 8000, the blade seemed to have caught into the rock. I did not feel I was putting much pressure, but who knows.
Does this sound like overhoning or perhaps just an unsteady hand/angle?
I started getting the blade to the point it feels like it's cutting into the nail just slightly, but never get it to the sharpness my Theirs-Issard came shipped at.
Is it typical for a new blade to require a heck of a lot to get it at the ready-to-strop sharpness? (I mean a 10/10 and lower then second pyramid starting at 8 strokes either didn't do the trick or overdid it).

On average, would it be uncommon to have to go 20+ strokes on the 4000? Is it safer to stay at 8000 and go more slowly?

(btw I did order Lynn's DVD, I accept the option of just waiting on that :P)

I am not a honing expert but I might suggest you re-lap your hone, assuming you lapped it before you started. What were you using to lubricate your hone? Water?? Make sure you keep it nice and wet. I have found that a little shaving lather works better and creates a "slicker" surface.

Just my $.02

I think the size of the blade factored in, I'm no putting pressure on the blade, and that 3/8 Doble-temple might not be providing enough weight on itself to provide notable results soon enough to give me confidence.
I tried the larger 7/8 Doble-temple and I can see an improvement as I do a pyramid then strop. I'm gonna shave with it as it is now, and see if I gotta hone and strop again.

The little blade's a pain in my neck though, I can't seem to get a feel for how it's coming along.

btw I'm using a new Norton 4000/8000 w/ water. I also have a barber hone for what it's worth.

I had a very similar problem to you and just recently experienced some great success. You should definately lap the hone befory you use it. There should be instructions that came with your Norton on how to do this as well as lots of info in the honing section. Also make sure that you round the edges of the Norton stone because sharp edges make it easier to damage your razor's edge.

I do not think that a new razor should need anything close to a 10-10 pyramid to get it sharp. My problem was that I was not using enough pressure on the hone. In my experience some light even pressure is needed in order to make sure that the razor stays on the hone the whole way through and also remove a small amount of metal in order to shape and polish the bevel. If you have Lynn's DVD you can see that when he hones he is removing a small amount of metal from the razor on both the 4K and 8K side of the Norton.

So my advice would be to use light pressure, but just enought to make sure that the razor stays on the hone and removes a small amount of metal throughout the stroke. Some people may dissagree with me; however, this small adjustment made all the difference in the world to me and I am now getting very sharp edges and smooth shaves. You are probably experiencing more success with the 7/8 blade since it is heavier and easier to keep even on the hone. You will probably have to add a little pressure to the smaller blade to compensate for it's lack of mass.

If you are still having problems feel free to PM me or give me a call and I can try to help you through it. I am definately not an expert yet; however, your problem seems very similar to the one that I was having not too long ago.

By the way. How do you like the 7/8ths blade. I am very tempted to order one.

David

I think the 7/8s will be my favorite once I get it sharp as my TI Super Gnome currently is. I thought I'd prefer the smaller size of the 3/8(#10) but the size and weight of the 7/8 is actually making my new hands feel more sure-handed and smooth as I shave.

I should take a day off.

A new razors bevel should be just fine. Usually I use no 4K strokes at all. Sometimes I like to add 2 or 3. Starting at 10/10 then moving to 8/8, while not wrong is probably too much. After all, did you look at the bevel first?

Since this is a 3/8 I would suggest you send it out. There is precious little blade to work with. If you want you can send it to me and I'll look at it and send you a PM with exactly what is going on first, then fix it. That way you'll know what was happening.

Otherwise, just try and fix the bevel and get back to it.

I can't say I've ever made the intuitive leap that a blade that bites a hone is overhoned. Maybe you lifted the blade a touch.

I like to try, try really hard to let everyone do whatever they want. But trying to judge the sharpness of a blade with the thumbnail test is really asking a lot from yourself.

A thumbnail test would be good to do now so you know if its overhoned or not. Your better off using a thumb pad test to check for pure sharpness. Its true, bite is pretty important against the nail. But its hard to read against your nail, takes experience.

I'm not sure what happened there either, but it sounds to me like the spine lifted a little bit during the stroke. I've had that happen before.

The point about needing some pressure is a good one. This was my first honing breakthrough. You need just enough pressure to keep the razor from lifting off the hone. Trying to go too light will let the razor wobble a bit, and it can actually dull itself.

It's all about developing the right touch. :)

Good luck,
Josh

I have honed a few of these and the edges are a little different. They do tend to grab at the heel end. Just need to make sure that the blade stays very flat with little to no pressure. Also, these can over hone easily, so use minimal number of strokes. They have a different feel too as they are long and with the 3/8 blade almost feel flexible when shaving.

Have fun.

Lynn

Alan gives you sound advice as to the thumbnail test. I've tried and tried to get that one down but find I have much better success determining sharpness using the thumb pad test and even that takes some time to discern different feelings as the blade gets sharper or duller. In fact, I don't do any testing at all now except the thumb pad and shave test and now get very nice, smooth shaves.

I should've mentioned a couple things.
I don't like the way the heel of the blade starts from a taper of the shaft (terms?).
It is making it a little tricky to hone, keep the edge flat.
Also I noticed when I first unboxed it, getting closer to the heel of the edge looks to have more bevel surface then the tip. That could just be my eyes or the way it's supposed to be.
That hasn't changed.
Out of the box, I check it and it was obviously too dull to shave, but I just couldn't get an improvement on the lil guy like the 3 other blades.
sending it out sounds like the plan, I do want to try to shave a section of my face first to see where it really stands in case the size and light weight are making it too hard for me to tell what's going on.
(I'll PM you, AF, if you don't mind, later)

I really feel that a 3/8 is one of the most difficult sizes to hone. It is very easy to "stub" the edge while honing. Paying very close attention to the evenness of the pressure and going slow has worked for me.

On the new razors that I have honed ALL! have needed to have a new bevel established. The factory does not perform any operation that forms the bevel while the razor is laying flat. They raise the spine just a bit to avoid creating a wear pattern on the shoulder of the spine.

Put electrical tape over the spine and perform 25 laps on the 4K to establish the bevel then move on to a conservative pyramid.

Hope this helps,:)

New razors come in varying degrees of sharpness. Some are very close to shave ready and some not. I have about 10 TIs I bought new and all save the damascus were very good shavers out of the box. Unless you got a really bad sample my opinion is you should NEVER have to use the 4K on a new blade. The 8K or higher is all you should ever have to use. On average I use about 60 passes on the belgian coticule with most of my new razors. Some a little more and some a little less. It depends how much pressure your using.

If you hit the stone with the blade your technique is off. Either there is too much pressure or your stroke is uneven. I hope you first practiced with a junk razor before starting with a good blade.

I'm with Randy on this one. The one new razor that I've honed--a Dovo--had a weird bevel on it. I messed with it for a long time before I realized that the bevel was too steep and needed to be reset. I had to work it for a while on the lower grits before it would come up to shave-ready.

Josh

I got it!
I think my major setback was lack of confidence and fear of the overhoning I'd heard of and my inept handling of that small paddle strop, undoing the work I'd done on the hone.
I got the 3" hanging strop from thewellshavedgentleman.com and it's excellent.
After 30-40 passes on that thing the shave is a completely different experience after the hone.
(the bonus beginner strop is appreciated as well).
...think about what's happening to the blade as you hone, strop pretty much went through my head.

I stuck with 8k and finished with a few strokes on a barber hone and my TI Super Gnome and Filarmonica 7/8 Doble-Tempe each shaved so-so on first try then much improved after honing on the barber stone and stropping once more. Each finished 1/2 of my face just fine. Now I get to hone lightly and try again until it stops improving, which is where I was hoping to be. I like the 7/8 a lot.

I go have the 3/8 to contend with, the bevel isn't evenly sharp, and an old ebay buy with a spine that isn't very even, probably out of my hands but it's gonna be fun seeing where I can get with it.

Lynn's DVD is excellent btw, indispensible, IMO; dollar-for-dollar the best investment I made in this endeavor. With the DVD, some time, facial cells, and finally a self-honed blade or two I shaved comfortably with, I finally feel like Im catching on. Since I feel like I'm learning, I will be sure to send out future acquisitions to be honed by th resident experts. (sometimes I like learning the hard way I guess).