Help with steel whiskers that grow against the skin

I need help with steel like whiskers that grow against the skin. What is happening is the razor mostly skims over the whiskers without a cut when WTG (or even a slight angle). If I go ATG, the razor just stops. Going faster or harder ATG just causes irritation.

I've attempted to remedy this by shaving smaller areas, but I'm still getting stumped. Raking and slamming the blade into the hair isn't helping either.

Advice? Techniques?
Or is this the end of the road for straight razor shaving for me?

The quality blade is professionally honed. My shaves are every morning, so the hair is not long. I take a hot shower before my shaves, and use a quality cream and brush. I typically shave with a slant safety razor that cuts easily.

Thanks,
Jake

If you use a safety without issue You should have no reason that you cant use a straight. What angle are you using and do you stretch the skin in the opposite direction to the growth to make the hairs stand up. I'm sure with a few little technigue tweaks you can get a great shave with a straight.

Have you tried face lathering with a stiffer brush? Say boar or badger perhaps. This can help lift up the hairs form your face. you may also want to do more than one WTG pass is you have that much of an issue and then an XTG "sideways, East to west, or whatever description you like). Try out these ideas for a bit. You may want to hold off on the ATG pass until you figure out what works better.

BTW, I only do a two pass shave most mornings, you don't HAVE to have a BBS shave every day... (waiting to be struck by lighting..............).

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Your razor's edge is fubar. It has a rolled edge, wasn't properly stropped, you could have used a bad angle and damaged the edge, or wasn't properly honed. Stop what you are doing as your straight should slide through whiskers like a safety razor. Just because someone calls themselves a professional doesn't mean they are turning out perfect shaving blades. I've seen many knife guys call themselves pro's and their edges were horrible. A rolled edge happens, I've done it quite a few times. Lastly, if you aren't stropping on a proper strop your edge will make it through one or two shaves and it will be done.

My recommendation is to find a mentor near you. They don't have to be a badged mentor, just someone who has been at it a while. If you are near me (please fix your information so we can know where you are from) I will show you the ropes and hone that razor to where it needs to be.

The slant with a good blade cutting easily suggests that your prep is good and your hair is cut able. Two possibilities come to mind. SR shaving, especially when having difficulties can be slower than DE razor shaving. Drying lather can become an issue, drying hairs get harder to cut. I suggest rehydration and reapplication of lather as needed to keep the hairs wet and to preserve glide and cushion properties.

I also wonder if your razor's edge is still shave ready. A dull razor will catch, drag, tug, and fail to cut hair well. Attempting to compensate leads to nicks and skin irritation, often because of a high spine angle and increased pressure against the skin. When my razors are shaving well, i can usually tree top chest hair without difficulty. This test does not work as well with my arm hair which is softer and pushes over more easily. When my SR starts to cut less well, I refresh by stropping a dozen strokes on a diamond pasted paddle strop followed by wiping and restropping on unpasted linen (30) and latigo leather (60). This usually restores cutting performance, although sometimes I need to touch up on my 8K Norton before using my pasted strop.

To get a close shave, I reduce my beard 1st using WTG strokes. I then relather and come at the hairs from different XTG directions using skin streatching to help raise the hairs for closer to the skin cutting. After the shave feels pretty close, I finish by reapplying lather and shaving ATG. I keep a very light skin pressure, almost as if I wanted to brush dust off a very delicate surface without any risk of scratching or damaging the surface. I can hear the hairs cutting, until they are almost all gone and feel light resistance, but nothing like tugging or pulling, or the blading catching on hair, provided I keep my hairs wet and the blade is sharp.

Even the sharpest blades will not cut really dry hair without pulling and potential skin irritation. A dulling blade cannot shave close and will potentially tug or catch on even well prepared wet hair. Even with good prep., a sharp blade, and wet hairs, close shaving often requires beard reduction WTG followed by XTG and ATG on stretched skin to raise up the hairs to get a close shave.

I agree with shooter that the most likely explanation for your problem is a dull edge. It is difficult to learn effective SR stropping, refreshing, honing, shaving technique, and beard prep. all at the same time because they are all acquired skills each one of which can cause a less than stellar shave. As your skill level increases, it will become more apparent where the problems lie. Improvements in one area helps one discern where the difficulties lie in other areas leading to improvement in those areas. A mentor makes learning easier because the mentor will be able to recognize many issues quickly and demonstrate their solutions. Reading about guitars on the internet and understanding how the guitar is played is much different from being able to create music with the guitar. Guitar can only be learned from experience.

HTH

I would not force a razor that catches on a hair, but would immediately back up, lower the SR spine closer to the skin and lightly hit the spot again from another direction which usually works well for me. Using a low spine close to the skin helped a lot to prevent catching and skin irritation. Catching on hairs no longer seems to happen any more for me. I do not know whether it is because my prep., blade edge, or technique has improved, or all three.

Great suggestions.

I think my preparation isn't the problem (hot shower, good cream, badger brush, frequent re-lathering). I typically scrub my whiskers in the shower to raise them from the skin or loosen them up. My skin isn't the problem right now, just the stubborn whiskers that won't cut. This either because the blade isn't sharp (like some suggested), or the blade isn't getting to the hair's shaft (because the hair lays flat).

I presume the person I bought the blade from is an expert. I got a high quality carbon steel vintage blade, honing video, and beginner strop. Before my purchase I made a phone call to the seller, and they walked me through on how to look at a blade through a $10 100x magnifying glass; I can see the metal grain and flecks of skin. I don't see nicks. I can't really judge the sharpness as I don't have anything to really compare. It is sharp, but it might not be the sharpest. It is possible the blade has been rolled. Rolling a blade sounds very easy for a novice to do; using incorrect blade angles or stropping mistakes. I also used the blade a few times, and I may not have stropped it good.

I've been considering a disposable straight razor (like a shavette) to eliminate contending with blade issues (honing/stroping). This would allow me to focus on technique, rather than the equipment. Suggestions for a disposable straight razor are welcomed.

Thanks. Jake.

You won't catch me suggesting anything but a straight, so I give you this offer: Send me your razor and cover return postage (about $6.00) and I will evaluate your edge and if it needs a proper honing I will hone it for you & get it back to you. This way you will truly know what is going on with your razor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

You won't catch me suggesting anything but a straight, so I give you this offer: Send me your razor and cover return postage (about $6.00) and I will evaluate your edge and if it needs a proper honing I will hone it for you & get it back to you. This way you will truly know what is going on with your razor.

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Jake

Take the generous offer and if you do take it do NOT strop it before your first shave with it. That way you know you did not bugger the edge with bad stropping technique.

In your op you mentioned " What is happening is the razor mostly skims over the whiskers without a cut when WTG (or even a slight angle)." . When going WTG you should have about 2 spine widths gap between the razors spine and your face. You use very little angle on the blade going ATG.

There ain't no such thing as steel whiskers. You need a sharp blade, the right angle and pressure is all.

Bob

Bravo, Shooter. Thanks for the help. Snakey, should you make it near the People's Republic of Portland, let me know. A bit of face to face and blade to face helps speed up the learning curve. You'll do fine. Let me know how you like shooter's edge. I'll bet its nice.

Shooter, thanks for the generosity. I've sent you a PM.

Time for an update...

First, a big thanks to shooter74743. It is a great feeling to come to an Internet forum, get expert help, have someone personally help you, and have the trust with a stranger. Shooter was kind enough to inspect my razor, give it a hone, and offer some advice.

Some razor history:
1) Purchased a vintage razor from a person with presumed honing knowledge (they specialize in honing). I talked with the gentleman on the phone, and they gave me a good education on honing and razors.
2) It was originally honed at 30,000 grit.
3) I used it a few times, then got discouraged, then gave it a try again much later.

Here's the razor inspection:
1) There were chips in the edge, possibly from the 30K hone.
2) Bevel wasn't fully set.
3) Rust pits. Maybe because it was a vintage razor, or my lack of care. But when I what Shooter did to my razor, he must have polished it up because it looks a lot better than when I first got it.
4) Shooter re-honed the razor.

Some of this surprises me because I thought I was buying a professional honed used razor. After reading the forum for a while, there does appear to be a variety of expert opinions. Perhaps the variety I got didn't work.

So how about the shave?
I was both excited and a bit nervous. There's a lot riding on the first shave, and I didn't want to lose my inspiration by another poor performing shave. I have years of experience with a DE, so I have a good understanding of proper wet shaving.

The first shave with a proper razor....fantastic! The main problem and obstacle was definitely the razor. This newly honed razor now knocks off hair without a problem. This is what I really wanted to prove in my first shave. Now that I eliminated the tool as my obstacle, I can now focus on two areas: my technique and maintaining the tool.

I continued with my shave on my entire face. I did several passes at different angles of attack on the hair. I know we're told just to do one side, but I though I wouldn't learn anything if I stopped before the challenge, so I continued.

Here's what I noticed:
1) Worked in small patches. Wish my blade length was maybe 3/4". I have no idea why the blades are as long as they are, and the extra length sure gets in the way.
2) Beard reduction definitely works. The first pass will knock off some hair, then the second, and so on. By the time I went ATG, there was less hair to stop my blade.
3) Face/skin stretching is necessary.
4) Blade is very sharp and I got a cut. This is what happens when you don't pay attention and use a steep angle. Hopefully it won't scar.
5) Having a blade with a pointy tip makes for a challenge to not cut yourself, but makes it easier to shave around the nose.
6) Shaving with a straight takes a long time. It wore me out. The back of my legs leaning into the mirror are feeling it.
7) Some parts of the shave are left nice and smooth, some spots are rough. I have some nicks, and some redness, but not as bad as my first month of DE shaving.
8) Haven't used my left hand yet. Maybe this will help.

At this point I know I need to work on my technique to get the other spots smooth. I'm hoping with better proficiency my speed will improve.

Areas of concern...maintenance. I'm concerned that my stropping technique isn't going to keep this blade sharp. I'm also concerned that I might roll the edge (not sure how easy that is to do). Right now I'm stropping very lightly, maybe too lightly. There's no way for me to really know if my stropping is helping or hurting. But my goal right now is to get SR shaves as good as my DE, so I might have to send my razor out for hones more frequently.

Again, thanks to Shooter for getting me over this obstacle and back on track.

I'm off now to learn more about properly maintaining the razor, so it will be shave ready the next time.

Jake

Don't worry, as your shave technique improves your shave times will naturally decrease, don't try to force it. So long as the spine and bevel keep constant contact with the strop a light touch is all you need while stropping. Concentrate on improving your stropping technique and don't be concerned with being fast. Speed kills both the edge and the strop if you mess up trying to go faster. Like with shaving it will come naturally on it's own. You are now off to a good start, take your time and enjoy it.

Bob

For maintaining your blade a naniwa 12k or quality barber hone is a great starting point. For the most comprehensive barber hone information I know of visit http://www.razorandstone.com - The Front Page

Watched "A Team" the other day...

I love it when a plan comes together!

Have a few barber hones and the Naniwa 12k. My suggestion would be the 12k. Great smooth edges. Good luck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snakyjake

I need help with steel like whiskers that grow against the skin. What is happening is the razor mostly skims over the whiskers without a cut when WTG (or even a slight angle). If I go ATG, the razor just stops. Going faster or harder ATG just causes irritation.

I've attempted to remedy this by shaving smaller areas, but I'm still getting stumped. Raking and slamming the blade into the hair isn't helping either.

Advice? Techniques?
Or is this the end of the road for straight razor shaving for me?

The quality blade is professionally honed. My shaves are every morning, so the hair is not long. I take a hot shower before my shaves, and use a quality cream and brush. I typically shave with a slant safety razor that cuts easily.

Thanks,
Jake

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Glad you've solved your problem. For future reference "Harder" is the worst thing you can do with a SR, placing your face and the blade at risk. IMO, your face is the most critical, since razors can be re-honed.

Also may help to get a mirror that extends from the wall like this one. http://www.amazon.com/Ikea-Extending.../dp/B001PCU4SKI got one and it greatly helped my viewing ability for angle/growth pattern.

Update:

It has been a week since I started.

I can get average shaves, but I'm still nicking myself. I cannot get BBS shaves.

I can shave up, down, and ATG on my cheeks and mouth area. I cannot completely shave ATG on my neck.

It is taking me about 30 minutes for a shave.

Had lots of nicks, but less towards the end of the week. I'm sure people at work are having questions about this, but haven't asked.

Still have a week old scar that I hope goes away.

Still find the blade and handles getting in the way. I think having a shorter blade wouldn't get in the way as much. But I'm learning how to shave either with the tip or the heel.

I'm having great difficulty getting a smooth shave around my neck. My hair grows from the laryngeal prominence to the outside. I don't have a flat neck area to make ATG passes from left to center, and the blade's length means I'm too deep on the tip/heel, or too shallow in the middle. I'm trying real hard to stretch that area out as flat as I can, and maybe I need to stretch even harder! I'm still working on this great and frustrating challenge.

Here are some videos I'm using to show me stretches and techniques. The last one describes my problem quite well around the neck area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsTnSfaB0Ss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI7-n5hB52k

Jake