problem getting close shave

Decided to make the leap from my shavette which I have been using for 2 years now. getting barber close shaves with the red blade. I purchased 3 straight razors. a Dovo, a Boker and a Heinkels. All 3 were sharpened by "Classic Shaving". I have not had a close shave with any of the blades. The Shavette out performs them all.
I soften my beard as usual, use a pre shave oil and a quality soap/cream. I have tried different angles, stropped the razors and tried numerous times still can not get a close shave. Any suggestions?

If the razors are shave ready then I would say your angle might be off some to start with. The straight is a whole different animal and I am sure that someone that has used both will add to this for you. It has to be in the pressure and angle differences used in each type of blade. I hope you tried to use the razors before stropping. Improper stropping will ruin your whole day.

how is your skin stretching technique?

I've noticed I can get the same closeness with a Safety razor w/o skin stretching as I can with a straight razor with stretching.

I'm glad I ran into this post. I'm running into the same problem under almost the same scenario (successful shavette use, not much luck with my SR). I have a Dovo 5/8 that I got shave ready from SRD. Used it for a couple weeks until it seemed too dull for newbie stropping to save, so I sent it for my free re-honing. Got it back after about 2 weeks. In the meantime I went back to the shavette and getting a darn good shave. First shave with re-honed SR was so-so. Stropped it before my next shave using a paddle strop (SRD). Every shave since has really sucked! I'm not sure where I'm going wrong with my stropping, especially with a paddle. God knows I've stropped along with Lynn and others on YouTube quite a few times, but my SR can barely cut the hair on my arms. I am having a hard time coming to terms that my razor needs ANOTHER honing in less than a week. Sending it away for 2 weeks at a time after such short use is a little counter productive.

Any mentors in the vaccinity of Stuart, FL?

We have two folks listed in south FL,
and it sounds like there are two things to look at on the front end.

1. It sounds like your stropping is not helping the edge,
I know I may catch some flack for this but it does take a very light pressure to improve the edge.
Many refer to it as enough to keep good contact with the strop, well on my English Bridle the weight of the blade will do that,
with my Illinois #827 I have to use some pressure in order to maintain the contact and flow as it is a heavier draw.
Because of that my Illinois is the one that helped teach me proper stropping as it forced me to use correct pressure to keep contact, rhythm, and improve the edge.

2. A shavette will cut more effectively at a less appropriate angle,
a honed straight is not as forgiving in that area,
however if you get the appropriate angle and pressure the comfort level of your shave will improve.

There was an adjustment period for me when I transitioned to real steel although short.

You can use the link in my signature line or use the search function and search "Local Help".
Another option is to search in the community/members and use the advanced function.
If you do the latter look for an active member with a bit of time, read up on some of their posts and shoot out a PM.

Regards
Pat

Thank you Pat for the feedback! I really am trying to let patience be a virtue.

Hey guys! I am a former shavette (still do on rare occasions) that converted to a straight.

Keys to success for me:
Pressure doesn't equal closer shave.
Be patient, in most cases it will not happen over night.
As Lynn says in his video, start on the flat spots on your face.

The angle is ALOT more forgiving on a shavette vs. a straight. You can really open up the angle on a shavette and get no ill effects. Really focus on your angle when using a straight.

Unfortunately stropping has a learning curve as well. Keep practicing and be patient.

Good luck, the pay off is amazing!

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Originally Posted by Redcane

Hey guys! I am a former shavette (still do on rare occasions) that converted to a straight.

Keys to success for me:
Pressure doesn't equal closer shave.
Be patient, in most cases it will not happen over night.
As Lynn says in his video, start on the flat spots on your face.

The angle is ALOT more forgiving on a shavette vs. a straight. You can really open up the angle on a shavette and get no ill effects. Really focus on your angle when using a straight.

Unfortunately stropping has a learning curve as well. Keep practicing and be patient.

Good luck, the pay off is amazing!

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Good advice there.



As to OP:

It never happens overnight, no matter HOW LONG or HOW "SAME" one shaves with a shavette. Every time i come here and look there are new guys complaining that they can't make their proper straight razor shave as well as their shavette.

Only two things change: angles and stropping. Therefore it must be one or a combination of those two things.

I say get your first pass in with the SR and then clean up with your previous razor, for as many weeks/months as it takes to get the real difference or stropping issue sorted out. It never happens overnight.

In your case (OP) with 3 new honed razors, I'd expect it's mostly angle as surely you didn't strop away 3 different edges. Or did you?

It can never be as easy as we make it look, but hey we've been doing it a while.

And also, because i've seen about 100 threads like this where the common denominator was a shavette>SR transition, I stand behind my advice of going from DE to SR and forget the disposable straight looking thingy, possibly avoiding learning angles that won't work with SR. IOW it's a "baby step" that often complicates the issue.

Take your time. Good Luck.

Might be late to the party but I'll chime in.

Background. Shavette first then real SR's. I noticed the exact same problem after the switch and what I've learned is that a SR honed by the pro of pros is not as sharp as that DE blade in your shavette.

The reason this is true is the two fold. First the bevel on the DE blades are far more acute then on SR's. Second that more acute edge is mechanically honed thus removing human error.

So the angle of attack for a shavette is actually narrower then an actual straight. Not a lot but enough to mess your shave up at first.

Also skin stretching is very important too. I find that stretching skin away from the grain causes the hair to stand up and be cut easier.

Honestly telling new SR users that a shavette is a good way to get into the art is not good advice. IMHO. Different animals in my opinion.

Looking back, I wish I had started with a DE instead of a shavette. I think it has given me a false impression of how efficiently a SR should cut. I have tried to adjust my stropping yesterday and today. While I have notice a little improvement, I am finding that I have to angle the blade closer to 45 deg, instead of the typically recommended 30 deg. Does anyone else find this is a realistic angle (45 deg) that works for them, or is this a sign that I still have a ways to go with my stropping?

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Originally Posted by mbg1081

Looking back, I wish I had started with a DE instead of a shavette. I think it has given me a false impression of how efficiently a SR should cut. I have tried to adjust my stropping yesterday and today. While I have notice a little improvement, I am finding that I have to angle the blade closer to 45 deg, instead of the typically recommended 30 deg. Does anyone else find this is a realistic angle (45 deg) that works for them, or is this a sign that I still have a ways to go with my stropping?

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Holy cow I just got razor burn reading this. That's insanely obtuse. Sounds like a poor bevel set. But I can't be certain.

Something that I had to figure out is that I was gripping the razor too hard. Holding it light enough but not losing control of the grip I have on the razor. Also I found that the way I held it affected how I was able to apply the pressure. I got better results when I put my thumb on the bottom of the razor and put the scales between my ring finger and pinky, instead of the ring finger and middle finger. That more obtuse angle seems to give me more finesse with my stroke. Another thing that seemed to give me more finesse/touch when shaving, was the discovery that for me most of my stroke came from the motion of my forearm, and not my wrist so much. Using less pressure and going for beard reduction with more strokes in one area as opposed to the "Hay-makers" (longer strokes and fewer passes) I was trying to use at first. It took me months it seemed before I got a shave that didn't look like I shaved with a sander. I didn't come from a shavette background though.

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Originally Posted by JazzWillie

Something that I had to figure out is that I was gripping the razor too hard. Holding it light enough but not losing control of the grip I have on the razor. Also I found that the way I held it affected how I was able to apply the pressure. I got better results when I put my thumb on the bottom of the razor and put the scales between my ring finger and pinky, instead of the ring finger and middle finger. That more obtuse angle seems to give me more finesse with my stroke. Another thing that seemed to give me more finesse/touch when shaving, was the discovery that for me most of my stroke came from the motion of my forearm, and not my wrist so much. Using less pressure and going for beard reduction with more strokes in one area as opposed to the "Hay-makers" (longer strokes and fewer passes) I was trying to use at first. It took me months it seemed before I got a shave that didn't look like I shaved with a sander. I didn't come from a shavette background though.

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Not putting anyone's technique down. At all. If it works for you then I am not gonna say its wrong. Just for me anything more than like 20 degrees shreds my face.

Yeah, I know! The thing is I'm hardly getting any irritation, but that's the angle that actual seems to cut hair with stretching ATG and typical skin prep. Probably not a true 45, but it seems closer to that than 30 deg. Is it possible that I could've screwed the bevel up in about a week?!!
Like I said earlier, I have tried to pay close attention to my stropping and even use a paddle just to try to lessen my chances of rolling the edge. I think I have the motions down okay, I'm just really trying to get a sense of what's right and wrong in terms of the "pressure" (and I understand it should be minimal to none) that is required. I can watch every stropping video out there but I know that's something I'll have figure out on my own.

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Originally Posted by mbg1081

Yeah, I know! The thing is I'm hardly getting any irritation, but that's the angle that actual seems to cut hair with stretching ATG and typical skin prep. Probably not a true 45, but it seems closer to that than 30 deg. Is it possible that I could've screwed the bevel up in about a week?!!
Like I said earlier, I have tried to pay close attention to my stropping and even use a paddle just to try to lessen my chances of rolling the edge. I think I have the motions down okay, I'm just really trying to get a sense of what's right and wrong in terms of the "pressure" (and I understand it should be minimal to none) that is required. I can watch every stropping video out there but I know that's something I'll have figure out on my own.

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Just don't give up first of all. And everyones face/beard is different. So it maybe the razor or it may not be. I doubt like hell you rolling the edge would make it cut at a 45 but not a 30. Or there about. I don't know who honed your razor or the method they used. Its a lot of variables.

Lynn and srd are reputable so it could be stropping and shaving technique.

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Originally Posted by ncraigtrn

Just don't give up first of all. And everyones face/beard is different. So it maybe the razor or it may not be. I doubt like hell you rolling the edge would make it cut at a 45 but not a 30. Or there about. I don't know who honed your razor or the method they used. Its a lot of variables.

Lynn and srd are reputable so it could be stropping and shaving technique.

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The reputation of Lynn and SRD is why I bought from them- I knew it'd be done right. Trust me- I know it has to be something I'm doing.

A previous poster stet had asked if I had more than one SR. At this time being new I just have the one, a Dovo Best 5/8 with standard plastic scales. Plus financially I can't afford to start a collection right away. Eventually I'll build up.

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Originally Posted by mbg1081

The reputation of Lynn and SRD is why I bought from them- I knew it'd be done right. Trust me- I know it has to be something I'm doing.

A previous poster stet had asked if I had more than one SR. At this time being new I just have the one, a Dovo Best 5/8 with standard plastic scales. Plus financially I can't afford to start a collection right away. Eventually I'll build up.

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I actually asked that.

Reason was so you can compare between two razors.

Trust me I understand being financially restricted. That's what makes vintage razors appealing to me.

It'll come with patience. I would suggest not over thinking it.

Get it rehoned again.

I'd also suggest looking into getting a hone for doing touch ups yourself. Because after your two fee touch ups its 20$+ to have it done for you.

There is a definite learning curve as you have already been advised on several venues regarding the switch from the disposable to the straight. You really need to start from scratch, much the same as if you were starting with either from scratch. You have identified the biggest problem people have with the transition in this post. While a disposable will shave at a 45 degree angle, you will find that same angle most uncomfortable with a straight razor. You really need to keep the straight razor at less than 30 degrees for optimal performance.

In virtually every case like this, the problem is not the razor! This seems to be hard to accept for most people.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by mbg1081

Looking back, I wish I had started with a DE instead of a shavette. I think it has given me a false impression of how efficiently a SR should cut. I have tried to adjust my stropping yesterday and today. While I have notice a little improvement, I am finding that I have to angle the blade closer to 45 deg, instead of the typically recommended 30 deg. Does anyone else find this is a realistic angle (45 deg) that works for them, or is this a sign that I still have a ways to go with my stropping?

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Thank you everyone for the advice! Looks like I'll be getting it honed again and just keep on stroppin'. I've considered purchasing a set of hones, but seeing as how my stropping has a ways to go I'd be a little hesitant to commit to the stones. It looks like I've picked up some bad habits learning with a shavette first. I've heard somewhere that it takes almost 100 times to develop a muscle memory, but 10,000 times to correct it. Soooo.... In about 9,954 shaves I should have it figured out!
Cheers!

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Originally Posted by mbg1081

Thank you everyone for the advice! Looks like I'll be getting it honed again and just keep on stroppin'. I've considered purchasing a set of hones, but seeing as how my stropping has a ways to go I'd be a little hesitant to commit to the stones. It looks like I've picked up some bad habits learning with a shavette first. I've heard somewhere that it takes almost 100 times to develop a muscle memory, but 10,000 times to correct it. Soooo.... In about 9,954 shaves I should have it figured out!
Cheers!

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With that attitude you will have it sooner than you think!!!

Keep us posted on your progress and as always be heard if you have a question.

I aim to be as gentle as I can while stropping - others disagree and use more pressure but being gentle has really worked well for me. I picture the strop as being my partner's arm/leg and treat it as such; since then, my stropping has been so much smoother and the shaves have been far better too. Who knows, it may work for you as well. :)

I have a Dovo Best 5/8 and could not get a good shave. Bought a Ralf Aust and I get great shaves, the Dovo Best 5/8 never would cut hair. The only way was go to a 45 degree angle and still not good. Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by brucem

I have a Dovo Best 5/8 and could not get a good shave. Bought a Ralf Aust and I get great shaves, the Dovo Best 5/8 never would cut hair. The only way was go to a 45 degree angle and still not good. Just my 2 cents.

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That's interesting that you mention that. With my skill set so far I don't want to start putting any blame on my equipment, but I am interested to eventually find out if the different brands shave differently. Did you stay with a 5/8 on the Ralf Aust, or did you go with a wider blade? I often wonder if I would notice a difference with a wider/heavier blade....

The Ralf is 5/8 and I have a Dovo Bismarck 6/8 also. I do like the Bismarck the best. Lynn contacted me about the Dovo Best 5/8, wants me to send it back to him to get it corrected, you may want to contact him.
Bruce

Yeah, I'm going to send mine back to SRD for a re-hone. I'm going to go with the fact of my stropping must've dulled the life out of the blade. It's a little disappointing to accept, but that's what learning is all about. Hopefully, third time is a charm and I can figure out what I'm doing wrong so I can maybe wait a couple of months between honings. I definitely want to get the stropping down before I attempt to try honing on my own, otherwise I'm afraid of ending up with a straight razor shaped paper weight!

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Originally Posted by mbg1081

Yeah, I'm going to send mine back to SRD for a re-hone. I'm going to go with the fact of my stropping must've dulled the life out of the blade. It's a little disappointing to accept, but that's what learning is all about. Hopefully, third time is a charm and I can figure out what I'm doing wrong so I can maybe wait a couple of months between honings. I definitely want to get the stropping down before I attempt to try honing on my own, otherwise I'm afraid of ending up with a straight razor shaped paper weight!

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You'll get it. Its one of those things that just clicks.

Please edit your profile to include your location. This seems to be the BIGGEST newbie mistake on this forum. Help is out there and usually close by IF we know where you are!

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Originally Posted by Splashone

Please edit your profile to include your location. This seems to be the BIGGEST newbie mistake on this forum. Help is out there and usually close by IF we know where you are!

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AH HA! Good call, sir!