What razor to choose ?!

Hello I am pretty newbie to this straight thing
Now
I do know that I want and need a nice Carbon razor to begin with (and even spend my all life with only carbon steel)
So I have come to make a decision
What razor should I take?
should I go for Thiers-Issard Straight Razors like those ones
http://www.classicshaving.com/catalo...013/719626.htm
or
http://www.classicshaving.com/catalo...013/719642.htm
or
http://www.classicshaving.com/catalo...013/564072.htm

Or, maybe I will go for DOVO
and then for those ones
http://www.classicshaving.com/catalo...940/190248.htm
or
http://www.classicshaving.com/catalo...940/190250.htm
or
http://www.classicshaving.com/catalo...940/873572.htm

???
What is the different when it come to the steel? witch one will last more before need to be hone? and witch one will give me a closer shave or will give a kneer edge?

I hope you can give me some answers about these ones, tank you very much :)

The Dovo Bergischer Löwe will last the longest after a honing job. Since it's a stainless steel razor and therefore a harder type of steel. (The only stainless out of the lot you picked.)

The TI's you picked are all the same except for the scales.

The other two Dovo's are the same except for the scales as well. If price isn't an issue I'd either go with a Blond Horn TI or the Bergischer Löwe. I own a silversteel TI and it's probably my favorite razor. Easy to hone, holds an edge quite well and gets almost scary sharp.

As for the bergischer Löwe I really like the feeling of the Dovo Stainnless blades. They feel like they flex less on the face. I'd like to own one but do not have the funds for it quite yet. But out of this lot I'd go for a TI (although I'd pick a 6/8 instead of a 5/8 but that's personal preference for you.)

I agree especially with the 6/8 vs. the 5/8.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

As for the bergischer Löwe I really like the feeling of the Dovo Stainnless blades. They feel like they flex less on the face.

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Alex

You press hard enough so that the blade actually flexes on your skin?! :thinking: Have I misunderstood? Can't say I've ever got the feeling that my blade is flexing (with a 5/8 full hollow Dovo CS).

Mark,

I don't know about Alex (pretty sure he doesn't press hard at all) - but a very thinly ground blade *might feel* like it's flexing a bit in heavy growth as it catches the hair.

My take on this is that if it seems to flex - the angle is probably not optimal, or razor is not sharp enough - but I do not consider myself an expert...

At least one "advanced" shaver (don't remember who) had written somewhere that he likes the way some hollows flex on his face because they supposedly "conform" to the features (unlike a wedge) - but I find this hard to believe and take seriously. It *might* feel like it's conforming to the face, but I doubt it actually happens to that extent.

On the other hand, many people feel negative about blade flex and say they don't like it. For the record, Lynn has said that a properly honed Wonderedge (very thin and some claim flexy blade) used with good technique will shave the wild man of Borneo without any problems...

In my case both hollows and wedges seem to work well and I like them both. For heavy growth (e.g. 7 days) I seem to prefer a big heavy wedge. For lighter situations - smaller hollows. However, hollows will shave well heavy beard for me too...

Not sure this helped you - but you can use it as a data point

Cheers
Ivo

Is the Bergischer isn't carboon?
I think it is, look again
Also
I don't think 6/8 is good for me, I think it is a bit large for a blade to start with
Also, I want not a steel one, because it will make it harder for me to maintan the edge sharp, while with carboon, it is much easier to hone it
isn't?
I want something good to begin with, that will satisfy me for years to come

Stainless is harder to put the initial edge on yes. But from what I understand it is not harder to maintain the edge. Still, with starting out, I would think you would be better off with a carbon steal blade. The Bergisher is carbon steal.

As far as which to pick, I like the look of the Bergisher the best, but I have no experience with any of these razors.

If you order from classicshaving.com, then I would have the razor sharpened with their service, which is actually just Lynn. I believe the price is $20.00 or so, plus extra shipping, but it is well worth the price to get the razor sharpened by Lynn. Straights do not come shave ready out of the box, so you will need to have it sharpened by someone who knows what they are doing. I would not recommend buying a nice razor like this and then attempting to sharpen it your self. It is something that requires a lot of patients, time, and practice, and you will be very eager to try the razor out. If I were you, I would get the razor sharpened with the sharpening service, and then find a cheaper razor to practice sharpening with.

Matt

Yeah
No matter what am I going to buy, it is a MUST to buy Lynn DVD and the sharpen service :)
But
What razor to pick up?
I have read many people that prefer the Carboon, even after they know pretty good how to hone
They say that a carboon can get a real keen edge that some steel would never get (or it might be very hard)

But, I don't have a problem getting a steel, I just want to know what is the best of the best that will serve me for years to come and make it a real delight every time I use it and hone it :D

what do you think guys?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by izlat

Mark,

I don't know about Alex (pretty sure he doesn't press hard at all) - but a very thinly ground blade *might feel* like it's flexing a bit in heavy growth as it catches the hair.

---

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to look out (or 'feel' out) for that in future! I had no idea... :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EAD

Yeah
No matter what am I going to buy, it is a MUST to buy Lynn DVD and the sharpen service :)
But
What razor to pick up?
I have read many people that prefer the Carboon, even after they know pretty good how to hone
They say that a carboon can get a real keen edge that some steel would never get (or it might be very hard)

But, I don't have a problem getting a steel, I just want to know what is the best of the best that will serve me for years to come and make it a real delight every time I use it and hone it :D

what do you think guys?

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They are all going to be high quality razors, and differences are going to be very small, at least at this stage in your journey they will be small. I would order which ever one you like the best as far as appearance. Any of these razors will fill your needs.

Matt

I love the Bergischer the most
How is it?
Will it be a good one to start with?
Also
Is the fact that it isn't fully hollowed doesn't matter?

Dovo is one of the best brands and that is one of their best razors, so I would guess that it would be a great starter. A bit pricey, but still a good razor.

As far as the grind on it, I wouldn't worry too much about it. These are minor differences that you come to appreciate. This is why many guys get into collecting and using different razors. Every razors is different and is a joy to use for different reasons. I would say go for the Bergisher, as it will most certainly shave you well, and then, if you want, you can get other razors to try them out. I have kept up with your posts and from what I can gather, your hooked already. I wont be surprised at all when you post about another razor you are looking at or have boughten.

Matt

I think my problem is less the razor, but all the stuff needed for it
Strop, stones for honig and so on
It take place to put here (Where will I put the strop?!)
And getting the knowledge to use them well, I am afraid I won't be able to sharp my steel and only ruin it and be very upsate with it :(

And, I can't find any place on the net that will sell me all the stuff I want
One have the stone only
One have the razor
and one have the strop
What to do?!
I didn't thought it will be so hard to get startting with it :(

Unfortunately there aren't many places that sell everything you need, but classic gets pretty close. They have razors, strops, and the norton water stones. Basically the only thing you can't get there that was on your list is a yellow coticule stone.

Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EAD

... And, I can't find any place on the net that will sell me all the stuff I want ...

---

It's all at Tony's store. He's on a little vacation right now so you'll have to be patient. He has sets available for an all in one including a razor, but you can make a deal with hime to exclude it if you want another type. He's a great guy to deal with.

I'd say don't worry too much about getting the best razor ever on your first purchase. Take the first year to try different razors and sell the ones you're not going to keep a little later down the road. That's one of the very nice things about the restorations that happen around here, great vintage blades at very good prices and the market remains pretty constant.

Get yourself a few cheap razors from eBay to practice your honing on and I think it would be best to learn to hone a carbon steel blade first. Save the stainless steel for a little later.

If you're still dead set on getting a new razor, I would like to praise Thiers-Issard. Every TI razor I have ever honed and shaved with has been the absolute peak of quality.

I also prefer a 6/8 or 7/8. Great minds think alike. :D

X

Quote:

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Originally Posted by majurey

Alex

You press hard enough so that the blade actually flexes on your skin?! :thinking: Have I misunderstood? Can't say I've ever got the feeling that my blade is flexing (with a 5/8 full hollow Dovo CS).

---

It's difficult to explain to someone that has not shaved with a Dovo Stainless. Normally I don't get the feeling that my blades flex at all. Untill I tried a DOVO Stainless that is. Somehow the blade felt "stiffer" than both my sheffield silversteel blades. And I'm pretty certain that the Bergischer Löwe is stainless. (When Dovo tlk about Swedish steel instead of Solingen steel it usually means stainless as opposed to carbon.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xman

It's all at Tony's store. He's on a little vacation right now so you'll have to be patient. He has sets available for an all in one including a razor, but you can make a deal with hime to exclude it if you want another type. He's a great guy to deal with.

I'd say don't worry too much about getting the best razor ever on your first purchase. Take the first year to try different razors and sell the ones you're not going to keep a little later down the road. That's one of the very nice things about the restorations that happen around here, great vintage blades at very good prices and the market remains pretty constant.

Get yourself a few cheap razors from eBay to practice your honing on and I think it would be best to learn to hone a carbon steel blade first. Save the stainless steel for a little later.

If you're still dead set on getting a new razor, I would like to praise Thiers-Issard. Every TI razor I have ever honed and shaved with has been the absolute peak of quality.

I also prefer a 6/8 or 7/8. Great minds think alike. :D

X

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I don't know
I want something new to start with, and some thing good, so I know the only problem (If I will have some) is because of my technique
So
I want the best I can get in the market, also things like strop, stones and so on, will probably last more then the blades I will keep on buying or selling
So I want the best instruments I can get

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EAD

... I want the best instruments I can get

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Another reason to look again at the Thiers-Issard, IMHO.

X

Yup, and as for strops and stones etc there is no-one on the maket tha thas a better name than Tony.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

It's difficult to explain to someone that has not shaved with a Dovo Stainless. Normally I don't get the feeling that my blades flex at all. Untill I tried a DOVO Stainless that is. Somehow the blade felt "stiffer" than both my sheffield silversteel blades. And I'm pretty certain that the Bergischer Löwe is stainless. (When Dovo tlk about Swedish steel instead of Solingen steel it usually means stainless as opposed to carbon.)

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OK, now I'm going to have to get myself a SS blade. I'll tell my wife it's your fault! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

Yup, and as for strops and stones etc there is no-one on the maket tha thas a better name than Tony.

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REally?!
Are they better then Dovo in classicshaving.com ?!

I own the DOVO best quality strop and I have had seen and used one of Tony's strops (Thanks John P.) Tony's strop is definately better quality and cheaper.

Like I said though Tony's stones are not better than the Norton's at classic shaving, they are different. The 4K side of the Norton is is a fast cutting stone and is used for forming the edge and the 8K side on the Norton is used for polishing the edge. The edge produced from the Norton is "shave ready" and many people are completely happy with this edge. Some people (including myself) like to refine the edge even more and this can be done with 1 micron and .5 micron pastes, or with finishing stones like the Belgian Coticule or Tony's stones. Tony's stones are finishing stones.

A couple of points:

1) Tony's strops kick the crap out of the Dovo strops - I've used both and at all pirce points, Tony's strops are better.

2) Unless you're really fixated on getting a new razor, get a nice refurbished razor from someone on the board - you'll pay between $40 and $50 for a shaving sharp razor that's been refurbished/cleaned up vs. a minimum of $100 for a new pre-honed razor. The TI plane jane Evide Sonant (full hollow) and Le Gnome (1/2 or 1/4 hollow - heavier grinds) are good buys for under $100. The Dovo Special with the mock shell handle is also supposed to be good.

3) There is a difference between SS and carbon razors - they take and hold an edge a little differently and shave a little differently. SS razors are stiffer than comparably sized carbon razors. I really like the two SS razors I have. The Dovo SS for $100 is a good buy.

4) While good technique and a sharp razor can shave any beard, I found that stiffer razors were more forgiving when learning and I still have a preference for heavier grinds. I also think 6/8 is a better size than 5/8 when starting out - bigger razors are a little stiffer and help compensate for less-than-perfect stropping/shaving technique.

5) You don't need a hone to start. A pasted paddle or bench hone from Tony will let you keep your razor sharp/refresh the edge and is easier to learn with.

So, while Classic is a good vendor, you can get everything you need to get started from Tony and he sells starter sets for very reasonable prices.

Amm I see
So, you think I should start with the things Tony has to offer?
I don't think Tony has like Thiers-Issard and so on
(witch according to most guys here and things I have read, seem like a really god razors)
As for size
I know I love more "small" ones, becuse I will probably have problems using a 6/8 under my nose and all the small parts of my face
and as for steel or carbon
Well Thiers-Issard makes good carboon like the Sheffield Silver Steel, isn't it a very good steel to use?
And isn't "singing" blade is a good one for me?
I have so many questions, but it seem like I have no chance on getting all the things I want from one seller :hmmm:

Ead,

One BIG plus for me with SS is the non rusting issue. I have some brand new CS razors which I have only used a few times, and they are already showing spotting in some places on the razors. This is despite my best efforts of totally drying them properly after use (obviously not enough).

John

So, is it better to take SS or a carbon? I know the plus and minus of each one
I prefer Steel, but the question is how much will I be able to keep the edge keen? and can it have a very fine edge like the carbon can?

and btw, no matter who I am buying from, I am sure to have it sharpen for me for the first time

http://www.shavemyface.com/forum/vie...703&highlight=

Here's the same topic as discussed over on SMF also.

~Tye

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tye

http://www.shavemyface.com/forum/vie...703&highlight=

Here's the same topic as discussed over on SMF also.

~Tye

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Yep, well knoe I know what is the different, and I want to buy one
But still
Look at what each people tell me here, it isn't 100% carbon or 100% SS
Every one has is own opinion, and I am not sure what I can get
Can you help or you come here only to make some laugh at me?!

I do know you have great ideas and knowledge to share, so please share it with me, and not just try to make laugh and not to help at all

and BTW
Like I have said before, I will go for the Thiers-Issard razors
The Sheffield Silver steel seem like a nice good carbon to me after all I have read
Now
What to choose? size?

and like I have said before, I also need things to being able to strop the blade and hone it by myself

BTW
Do I need to have it sharpen by Lynn first? or is it come shave ready?
I have heard some guys here tell that the Thiers-Issard are shave ready
and also
If I buy it sharp ready from classicashaving, how much will the blade last until I need to hone it?
I am asking it, because maybe I will just buy a razor and a strop, and maybe later I will get the 4000/8000 Norton and some finner level too

If it were me and I was going to buy a new razor I'd probably buy an entire setup from Tony Miller, but with Tony being away for spring break and all (if I were Tony I'd also refuse your business after what you posted in a different thread) I'd make my purchases from Classic and pay to have Lynn hone the razor. Classic has strops and pastes and nortons. You should be able to get everything you need there.

~Tye

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tye

If it were me and I was going to buy a new razor I'd probably buy an entire setup from Tony Miller, but with Tony being away for spring break and all (if I were Tony I'd also refuse your business after what you posted in a different thread) I'd make my purchases from Classic and pay to have Lynn hone the razor. Classic has strops and pastes and nortons. You should be able to get everything you need there.

~Tye

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I did make an apology for Tony!
I even sent him PM, I think the all thing went out of control
Any way
I might buy from classic, they have a really great service, and I love buying from them
But
Every one here tell me about how good is Tony's strops and so on, so I might take the razor I want from classic, but the strop from Tony
How is that?

That is a good idea.

I agree with the suggestion of Tony's strops, my strop from Tony is easily the best of several that I have.
Just to muddy the waters a little more, I'm pretty sure Dovo also offers a razor or two made from Sheffield silver steel, and I'm also in the camp that believes the Bergischer Lowe (sorry don't know how to make the umlaut) is not stainless steel, but apparently that depends on which website you buy it from; some, like Classic, say it is stainless, others, like Emsplace, call it Carbon. To say it is Swedish steel or Sheffield steel, etc. is only half the story. You may find this thread interesting....
So I guess if the catalog number has an "N" its not stainless, and if it has an "R" for Rostfrei, then it is...
:hmmm:
Clear as mud.
John P.

Ok
So I think the best thing to do is get the TI razor made of high quality Sheffield Silver steel and get Tony's strop
Right?