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Hey guys,
I'm in need of some help or some directions.
I've been shaving with a SR for a few months now and it's going very well.
No more cuts, no more razorburn, the only thing is, I only shave WTG.
I wanted to make sure I felt at ease with the SR before going ATG or XTG.
Now I've arrived to the point where I want to give it a try.
But what is the best way to start?
All tips are more than welcome.
Make sure your razor is not pulling or tugging at all. I find most days I can get a really close shave with two passes one WTG and one XTG. If you stretch the skin in the opposite direction of your XTG pass the shave will be very close.
When going ATG go slowly. Keep the spine very close to the skin. And do not try ATG under your nose.
My suggestion would be the same as you started. Start with the cheeks and work up to more and more as you get more comfortable with it. Good luck
90% of the time I only go WTG and then a XTG. If I want real Close I do two XTG. Start very slow, watching your pressure and angle. I suggest going back to when you started, get the hang of your cheeks then move to harder areas. You'' have to be much more careful with growth patterns and textures. I've got very thick course beard that grows almost flat against my neck, its just asking to be cut to ribbons most of the time to go ATG on it. When in doubt remember you'll learn from your mistakes, and keep a styptic pencil near.
I started with XTG fairly soon, I go XTG from ear to center, seen lots do it the other way around, for some reason, that doesn't work for me.
ATG definitely came later, after about 20 shaves, I could do some ATG on the neck area, but that was it. Then I just slowly kept creeping up higher and higher until I can do my entire face ATG no problem.
For me, one of the key's to ATG is properly stretching the skin by pulling down on the neck area by the collar and leaning the head back a bit to get a good stretch, otherwise it's more difficult to get a clean shave, and you can give the blade a chance to dig in potentially.
Yes, what they said. Full ATG is simply not necessary for good close comfy shaving.
And you are quite correct in NOT trying it right off the bat.
The potential problem with ATG is that the grain of the whiskers will pull the blade into your skin AND/OR push/allow the blade movement laterally (to the intended direction of travel), and one must have developed a really good control of his blade to counter this. The sharpness of your edge will play into it as well. It's not that big of a deal where the hairs are less dense and multi-directional, but in areas of heavy growth, proceed WITH caution and only with the sharpest of blades.
And only after you've reduced the beard in that area by WTG, XTG strokes.
Again, ATG is never really necessary. Good on ya for askin'.
Congratulations on taking it slow!Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves81
Have you "mapped" your beard growth? If you make drawing like so:
Attachment 169328
However, that being said, many people generally take the XTG pass as horizontal passes(East to West and West to East), ie, from ear to ear. I generally start on my right, high jaw/hair line and work my way across my lip and chip to the other side. I sometimes stop in the middle of the lip or chin and move to the left side, high jaw/hair line and make my way across to the lip and chin.
My neck anywhere except a little under the chin and under the jaw area by the ear and a little at the very bottom, an XTG pass is difficult to accomplish with the straight. I generally go right to an ATG pass(south to north).
Hope that helps a little.
IMPORTANT: You must drop your angle to 7-15 degrees in an XTG/ATG pass or you will pay! I will come to your house and take your styptic away!
As with anything, it requires practice. I do one pass WTG and one pass ATG with touch-ups and completely cut out the XTG. Skin stretching, proper lather make-up and a sharp razor is key IMO.
It can be done despite what a couple of people here said.
Good luck,
Frank
Agreed - I used to think it was great to get my shave done quickly, two passes and out the door.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakebound
Now, if I could invent several different types of passes, I'd do them, just to enjoy the experience of shaving. You'd think you'd do WTG, XTG, and then ATG, for some reason, I like to do WTG, lather again, then all over ATG, re-lather again, then XTG on the cheek areas and another ATG on the neck, stretch that shave out as long as I can....LOL.
But yes, you can get a great shave with WTG only if you wanted, just practice and technique, as with most things.....
What I love about a thread like this one is the simple fact that we, as a group, spend so much time talking about razors, hones, eBay, strops/stropping, restoration, or arguing about tape on the spine that we neglect the shave itself. If I were to give any advice on the best way to start, it would be to understand what ATG means to you. Everyone's beard growth is going to be different. Know what ATG means to you and think about how the blade needs to engage it such that its ATG. Then think about how you'll need to hold the razor in order to accomplish that. Since you won't have only one direction, you won't have only one grip you'll need to utilize. Do as others have suggested. Start with one section and nail it. Then move on to another section and nail it. Later, string them all together in a logical sequence (clear area A in order to stretch and shave area B). Same thing with XTG. You're ready to try it when you're comfortable with WTG. There are things others can teach you and there are things you'll teach yourself. The sequence is all you. But there are common areas where you might run into trouble. Post those when you run into them or PM someone you can lean on for advice.
When you stretch for ATG, you want to place your finger such that you are shaving toward the finger where possible. This way, you are encouraging stubble to stand up straighter, not lay down tighter to the skin. Obviously, this means that a dry grip & smooth glide are essential, so your blade doesn't skip/jump and slice the stretching finger.
I was thinking about this last night.
When I first started a few months ago I couldn't believe that people could get by with just a WTG or a WTG and XTG. I was doing doing a WTG, XTG, ATG and still touching up with a cartridge. Over time though, I stop having to use the cartridge. And last night I realized that I hadn't done an ATG in over a week. The reason I hadn't done an ATG was because my shave was close enough not to require it. Practice and experience has made my shaves better and closer.
When I first started, the lather on my razor after a WTG pass looked like a lot of lather with some little black specks in it. Now it has a solid dark line of hair with lather behind it. Practice will bring you to that point.
The ATG is still important to know, but I hope that soon you will not need it everyday.
And +1 to deepwoods about slicing your fingers. I popped my middle finger on a skip while learning. No serious damage, but *ouch*.
Me, I am still a WTG kind of guy...even after shaving straight for 8 years. Plenty close if done correctly. Otherwise, my neck looks like it was pepper sprayed.. :O
ATG begins and ends with a sharp razor. If your razor is not super sharp it will be a very difficult experience.
Thanks for the tips so far.
Seems there is still a long way to go for me :)
I'll start by holding the razor a few times in other ways than the normal one.
That's one of the things that's most difficult for me.
OCD I don't think I've read a better post lately and I agree with what you said. The other thing that really made a difference in my ability to get ATG strokes comfortably was being able to nail a really slick lather with good cushion. I've dumped a lather and started over if I screw it up and want a really close shave.Good lather and face prep+sharp edge+light pressure+skin stretching= comfortable ATG passes. The best single choise I've made so far was to spend part of a day with a mentor, the second was to attend a meet-up.
make sure it's a good and sharp razor
and I always do a side slide
it's a scary thought but works magic
or, you'll need a styptic the size of a thermos :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Siguy
I have often read that ATG is not necessary to achieve a super close shave. It can not be done by everyone due to skin types that will cause ingrown hairs and the like. When you head off on the ATG adventure is up to you but be advised that your razor skills should be top notch and that includes honing. By razor skills I am including the ability to control minute differences in pressure between the toe and the heel. This is all IMHO stuff so here goes.
To cut a beard hair as short as possible it must be cut ATG whether it is sideways, pointing up, or pointing down. This only makes sense because if a hair is cut with the grain I do not see how it can be argued that it would be cut as short as a hair cut perpendicular, skin stretched to expose the hair, and against the grain. Each part of my face has hairs that grow in different directions and the sum total is that all directions must be shaved. I do a four pass shave North to South, XTG out, XTG in, and finally South to North. Each pass picks up a different hair growth pattern. You must make sure that your skin is taunt when shaving ATG, or any other direction. Hitting a fold of skin with a razor is not good. Shaving a cheek, for me, involves stretching skin with my finger just above where my sideburns end. I do overlapping strokes and as I go along I have the razor at a very shallow angle and very gently increase pressure. Some call it "riding the edge" where your razor edge is rolled back to the point that the cutting edge is a fraction of a millimeter above the skin and thus the added pressure will not cut you. Takes a lot of practice but just make sure that your razor is taking a very shallow cut when you get started and it will come to you.
Hope this helps. There are many techniques and everybody's face is different so you are going to have to adapt different things to what is needed in your particular situation. Takes time and patience. A superb shave is crafted and there really is not cookie cutter solution that works for everyone.
Take Care,
Richard
Agree with most of the above. I'd do the WTG , XTG , repeat and then once you're sure that most whiskers are gone then the ATG.
Or if if you like. Use your DE to a BBS then relather and use the SR, ATG on a clean canvas. Good practice.
Excellent Richard, I thank you, excellent! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by riooso
I now have a reason to add a fourth pass to my shave, therefore allowing myself to enjoy the shave even longer. I will now add an opposite direction XTG pass on the cheek area.
Funny how it all evolves, I used to think it was great to be able to do a 1 or 2 pass shave and be done in under ten minutes with a DFS....now, I do my best to stretch it out as long as possible. The scuttle is also a nice add-on, the hot lather is great, very soothing.
Thanks for the compliment. By the way, I get all this done in under ten minutes. I am not advocating speed but I find that it is just a natural groove that I have gotten into that allows me to shave every day with a straight. It is therapeutic for me on many different levels not the least of which is that if I don't shave I am plagued with blemishes and the like. Nothing worse than a 62 year old guy with zits.:cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrank
Take Care,
Richard
