help me ! I must be doing something wrong

I recently bought a straight edge blade but it wasn't professionally sharpened. I bought with that a strop. When I received it, I tried to use the strop to make the blade sharper, however it didn't do anything. Now I bought this whetstone king kw-65 combistone 800/4000 I tried to sharpen it with the 4000 side but it doesn't seem to work I must have done 30 run for both sides doing the X motion but it didn't seem to do anything. I tried to shave with that but first it always seem to be awkward to shave with the straight blade I can't really get all the hairs and I always seem to irritate my skin to the point of bleeding. Now after that I tried to hone with the 800 but it doesn't seem to do anything and I am really getting frustrated to this point. Also I have a shaving cream and that works fine but seriously holding the straight blade with the pinky on the aide and 3 fingers on the blade just doesn't seem to work. That's why I am asking you guys what am I suppose to do, I don't want to abandon this but I need to see that what I am doing is working.

Can you give me any advice ?

The King stones are fairly soft; harder stones seem to work better with razors. Many go to at least 8K if not 12 or 16K grit stones before stropping; if they end at 8K, they will use some compounds in strops like a 1 micron, 1/2 and 1/4 micron paste on different strops before going to linen and then bare leather. Razors should really be honed by a professional first and then stropped by you before use.

Well you landed in the right place my friend. Welcome to SRP. Up top is a button called library. With the amount of knowledge you need right now I would suggest you start there. First off , honing your own razor is not that easy. Especially if you have a razor that was cheap and not made of good steel. I started out the same as you and found SRP just in time. Don't give, up as you obviously have the desire and deserve a fair chance to actually try this. I would also look for someone in the members section that lives near by if somebody doesn't just come along soon. Give a more specific location of where you are and we will find you :<0)

+1 on what 10pups said, plus stop trying to hone before you ruin any chance that might exist for the razor.

Heh, at least you tried to sharpen yours before shaving with it! I took my Great Uncle's razor (with a chip in the edge) and tried to shave with that; looked like I got into a cat fight with the scratches all over my face! Since then I have learned more about honing, setting the bevel, stropping, etc. Now I can get a decent shave on most areas. It's fun, but can be frusturating! If you check the Vendors forum, you can find people you can send your blades to for honing and to make truly shave ready! I would go that route so when you get into sharpening, you know what it should look/feel like. I will probably send some of mine out ( I now have 5 straights and just bought a DE today as well!), so I have something to base my edges off of.

Hi, and welcome to SRP! You have come to the right place to get you going. :)

First off, whereabouts are you? There may be someone local to you who could meet with you in person to help. If you're anywhere near Ottawa, let me know and I'd be happy to assist.

OK, lots here... :)

What kind of razor is it? Everything below assumes that it's a workable, usable razor and not a razor-shaped-object. Some things being marketed as razors are absolute garbage that will not take/hold an edge. See here for a list of brands to avoid:
Brands of Straight Razors to Avoid - Straight Razor Place Library

And here for a list of good brands:
Good Straight Razor Brands - Straight Razor Place Library

Now, when it comes to honing, the most important thing is to set your bevel. I.e. where the two sides of the cutting edge come together at the point. If the bevel isn't set, no amount of stropping will help, and it will take many, many more than 30 strokes at a higher grit than 4000 to set a bevel. Typically something in the neighbourhood of 1000 grit is considered a bevel setter, and the higher grits (4000, 8000, 12000, even 20000, not to mention 'natural' finishers) are used to refine the edge.

The best way (I found at least) to learn to hone in the absence of 1-on-1 mentoring is to check out some of the excellent videos out there. Look in particular for those of gssixgun and Lynn. I like this one because Glen is taking a beginner through the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxrs5kFkmJg

Do yourself a favour and get a brush and proper soap or creme. You don't need anything fancy, but it will make a heck of a difference. Proraso soaps are very good and can be found at Shoppers Drug Mart, as can an inexpensive brush. Body Shop's maca root cream is very nice and not too spendy. Moving from canned cream (sorry - just realized I made an assumption that you're talking about cream from a can, so please ignore if you're using a brush etc already) to 'proper' wet shaving makes a huge difference.

As for the grip, it comes with practice. But it does require patience.

Good luck!

I have a couple of thoughts. First thought is about the razor. What brand? The next thought is that if it is a good quality blade you should send it to someone to sharpen. Where you are in Canada has a lot to do with who you should send it to. There are several guys that hone out East a couple in Alberta and a handful of guys on the west coast. A mentor might also be a good idea. If you could get together with someone it would go a long way in learning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBlackCompany

I recently bought a straight edge blade but it wasn't professionally sharpened.
Can you give me any advice ?

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It's really quite simple.

Thank you for the repies! Here is a blade similar to what I am usinghttp://m.ebay.ca/itm/221056137472?nav=SEARCH
I live in Montreal, quebec . as for the soap, I am using dreadnought shaving creami do not have the money to buy a 4k/8k whetstone it is so expensive.

No matter how many stones you buy, or what you do to it. It will not be professionally sharpened.

I think I have good news and possibly bad news...

First the good news: there are quite a few SRP members in Montreal, You might want to send a PM to member Badgister. Zayid is a great guy and if you can connect with him, you'll be on your way. I'll PM a link to his website too.

I'm not so optimistic about your razor unfortunately. I'm not familiar with that particular brand - and hopefully I am wrong - but *generally* speaking new razors selling around that price, particularly with a strop, tend not to be made of the greatest steel. It might turn into a decent shaver, but I wouldn't put any money on it. :(

I think your best bet at this point would be to get in touch with Zayid and ask him to check out the razor. When he has it in hand he'll be able to advise whether it has potential to be turned into a good shaver. Please be aware though that many honers will refuse to work on blades that they feel will not take or held a decent edge. They don't want to take your money for something that will disappoint, and they don't want their name associated with a sub-par blade.

If he reckons it's good to go, I *highly* recommend taking advantage of his honing service. Having a pro-honed razor - even if you only get it done once - will give you a benchmark to aim for if/when you hone yourself. Without that, you're chasing a target you can't see.

Kris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

Hi, and welcome to SRP! You have come to the right place to get you going. :)

First off, whereabouts are you? There may be someone local to you who could meet with you in person to help. If you're anywhere near Ottawa, let me know and I'd be happy to assist.

OK, lots here... :)

What kind of razor is it? Everything below assumes that it's a workable, usable razor and not a razor-shaped-object. Some things being marketed as razors are absolute garbage that will not take/hold an edge. See here for a list of brands to avoid:
Brands of Straight Razors to Avoid - Straight Razor Place Library

And here for a list of good brands:
Good Straight Razor Brands - Straight Razor Place Library

Now, when it comes to honing, the most important thing is to set your bevel. I.e. where the two sides of the cutting edge come together at the point. If the bevel isn't set, no amount of stropping will help, and it will take many, many more than 30 strokes at a higher grit than 4000 to set a bevel. Typically something in the neighbourhood of 1000 grit is considered a bevel setter, and the higher grits (4000, 8000, 12000, even 20000, not to mention 'natural' finishers) are used to refine the edge.

The best way (I found at least) to learn to hone in the absence of 1-on-1 mentoring is to check out some of the excellent videos out there. Look in particular for those of gssixgun and Lynn. I like this one because Glen is taking a beginner through the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxrs5kFkmJg

Do yourself a favour and get a brush and proper soap or creme. You don't need anything fancy, but it will make a heck of a difference. Proraso soaps are very good and can be found at Shoppers Drug Mart, as can an inexpensive brush. Body Shop's maca root cream is very nice and not too spendy. Moving from canned cream (sorry - just realized I made an assumption that you're talking about cream from a can, so please ignore if you're using a brush etc already) to 'proper' wet shaving makes a huge difference.

As for the grip, it comes with practice. But it does require patience.

Good luck!

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Hi!
he says change the tape after 1 k, i am little bit confused, if we change the tape, we wont get double edge?

What happens is you wear the tape down as you hone .Especially at 1k. Keeping it fresh helps you feel the stone/blade better and keeps it at the same angle. I change between all grits. I picked up Glen's habits and they have served me well. All but 2 of them :<0)

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Originally Posted by jemmo

Hi!
he says change the tape after 1 k, i am little bit confused, if we change the tape, we wont get double edge?

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If you tape when honing (not necessary, but many do) the tape will get chewed up - particularly on lower grit hones. By changing the tape between hones you ensure that you don't wear through the tape, and reduce the amount of gunk that gets onto your hone from the tape being worn away. So what he's saying here is remove that worn piece of tape and replace it with a fresh new piece.

Incidentally even if you did remove the tape entirely after bevel setting, it only take a handful of strokes to address the very slight change in angle. Glen did a video on this recently. I'll see if I can find it for you...

Edit: here you go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMchDtXzUO4&list=UUFsyslm41jb3ZPFa-2gdfdw

Thank you! Of course I want to meet with zayaid and i will pm Badgister! When you can send me the link for his website on pm !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

If you tape when honing (not necessary, but many do) the tape will get chewed up - particularly on lower grit hones. By changing the tape between hones you ensure that you don't wear through the tape, and reduce the amount of gunk that gets onto your hone from the tape being worn away. So what he's saying here is remove that worn piece of tape and replace it with a fresh new piece.

Incidentally even if you did remove the tape entirely after bevel setting, it only take a handful of strokes to address the very slight change in angle. Glen did a video on this recently. I'll see if I can find it for you...

Edit: here you go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMchDtXzUO4&list=UUFsyslm41jb3ZPFa-2gdfdw

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exactly that you say, when u hone with lower grit the tape will get chewed, i means the tape get thin, and you make edge with this size of tape, but when u get a new tape it is will be thickened then that one you pull out, thats gonna be double edge, am i wrong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jemmo

exactly that you say, when u hone with lower grit the tape will get chewed, i means the tape get thin, and you make edge with this size of tape, but when u get a new tape it is will be thickened then that one you pull out, thats gonna be double edge, am i wrong

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No - the difference in angles between a new piece of tape and a partially worn piece of tape is all but nonexistant. Also, if you did not change tape when it became partially worn, it would continue to wear, creating a difference even greater than if you did change the tape.

So really it's a personal choice thing. Use tape if you want, or don't use it if you don't want to. But if you do, it is better to change the tape when it begins to wear. And changing when moving between hones is a good habit to get into as it serves as a reminder to at least check the tape for wear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

No - the difference in angles between a new piece of tape and a partially worn piece of tape is all but nonexistant. Also, if you did not change tape when it became partially worn, it would continue to wear, creating a difference even greater than if you did change the tape.

So really it's a personal choice thing. Use tape if you want, or don't use it if you don't want to. But if you do, it is better to change the tape when it begins to wear. And changing when moving between hones is a good habit to get into as it serves as a reminder to at least check the tape for wear.

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ok man, i trying to learn, i use to hone with tape, ok, my question, if i hone a razor with tape and then get dull and will refresh it, sharp it with maybe from 5 k up to natural stone then i dont need to remember if i hade tape on that or not, hope you understand me, sorry for english

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jemmo

ok man, i trying to learn, i use to hone with tape, ok, my question, if i hone a razor with tape and then get dull and will refresh it, sharp it with maybe from 5 k up to natural stone then i dont need to remember if i hade tape on that or not, hope you understand me, sorry for english

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No need to apologize - you're perfectly clear.

No, it's really no big deal. If you watch Glen's video above from about the 6:30 mark, he does exactly what you mention. :) He has put an edge on a razor with one layer of tape. Killed the edge. And then gone to a 5k stone to put a new edge on it. In very little time, the edge is reset.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

No need to apologize - you're perfectly clear.

No, it's really no big deal. If you watch Glen's video above from about the 6:30 mark, he does exactly what you mention. :) He has put an edge on a razor with one layer of tape. Killed the edge. And then gone to a 5k stone to put a new edge on it. In very little time, the edge is reset.

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i saw that but i want to be sure, because you must be a pro, just ask to be sure, thanks a lot, i learned me so much here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jemmo

i saw that but i want to be sure, because you must be a pro, just ask to be sure, thanks a lot, i learned me so much here.

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I'm not a pro - I'm still learning too! :)

However when it comes to knowledge of honing, there are few who are even close to the level that Glen is, so I certainly defer to his experience.

as you mentioned the cost of the stones is not cheap , but to have it pro honed is relatively cheap and it will be shave ready, plus as was said if its not a good blade, they wont waste your time and money, better to look in our classifieds and get an inexpensive shave ready blade to start ,,, good luck tc

First rule about shaving:

Never ever put a blade to your face that wont effortlessly "pop" dry hairs from your arm (above skin level).

And that is simply a minimum, no guarantees, level of sharpness.

Second thing. The easiest way to get a fully-shave-ready edge is to PAY someone who shaves with straight razor to provide it for you, OR to buy a "shave ready" razor from a trusted source (who shaves with straight razor).

Third, it's not as easy as we make it look.

Best of luck.

Nothing more expensive than buying razors and stones that won't work.

Most new razors from reputable makers will cost between 100-200 USD. Paying half that for a new razor from a faceless source will likely never get you a razor of substance.

That steel might take and edge, but i doubt that it will hold it. It may not even take an edge, and the grind may be "off". I'd relegate it to letter-opening for now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBlackCompany

Thank you for the repies! Here is a blade similar to what I am usinghttp://m.ebay.ca/itm/221056137472?nav=SEARCH
I live in Montreal, quebec . as for the soap, I am using dreadnought shaving creami do not have the money to buy a 4k/8k whetstone it is so expensive.

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The trouble with learning to shave with a straight edge is that there are so many variables compared to other shaving methods. So, when you're learning, there is so much to think about/learn/vary etc. Everyone will have a different experience, so asking for advice from 1000's is sometime overwhelming! That said, I'll give you mine. Get your razor professionally honed to reduce at least one of the variables. Then meet up with some experienced members - I've done that a few times and it has been way more helpful than reading/watching online. Most importantly, don't give up. Everyone has started from where you are now. Good luck!

Yeah that's what I am going to do ! I will get a professionally honed straight edge and practice will people close to where I live ! I just need to find people in Montreal hahaha. I know 1 person so far