Question about Honing - x-stroke

I haven't yet honed a razor but am about to start. I have watched heaps of videos and seen local members do it, but I can't logically get my head around one aspect of the x-stroke...

It appears that when doing such strokes, the heel of the razor spends far less time/travel on the hone than the middle of the edge or the toe.

Does this result in the heel wearing slower than the other parts of the edge?

Does one need to apply extra pressure to the heel to "even things out"

And when one moves to the final polish, it appears that little to no pressure is used, so one cannot apply extra torque to the heel to compensate?

I'd really appreciate people's thoughts on this. If it helps, I will be using Chosera 1k for bevel set, norton 4/8k for refinement, then escher for final polish (the escher is a narrow hone), mainly on sheffield steel but also for my set of CV Heljestrands and a Bengall. And razors from 4/8 to 9/8, near wedge to hollow and framebacks.

Thanks, Andrew

Andrew, start out with razors that are not your best, or your favorites. I'm assuming you've got some pro honed in your rotation ? Use those to see, through a loupe or a microscope what a properly honed bevel looks like, and in shaving what it feels and performs like. IOW, it ain't brain surgery, but until you feel confident in your ability, use less important razors to practice on. IMHO.

What helped me with the X stroke, and with honing in general is this short excerpt from the 1961 barber's manual on honing and stropping. You'll see a line drawing of the ideal profile for a blade, and an explanation of how to get it and to maintain it. Don't worry about the heel, it will follow along in keenness as the honing goes along. IME it is more difficult to get the point end equally keen than the heel. Maybe that is just me.

Disburden (NIck) pointed (no pun) out to me that Lynn showed him to raise your elbow and shoulder a bit to provide the leverage, or maybe angle is a better word, to hit that part of the blade if it is lagging behind. Check out the PDF ......... http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...t_-_Honing.pdf

Also, depending on the profile of the blade you're honing, this tutorial may come in handy too ;

Rolling X stroke - Straight Razor Place Library

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Great, thanks, I hadn't seen the rolling x-stroke, I had been researching the basics but didnt come across this. It makes perfect sense. Cheers.

p.s. I have a number of cheap sheffield blades I bought purely to learn on, with the intention of giving them away shave ready once I felt comfortable honing a better razor. And yes, I have a number honed by gssixgun which I will be using as a benchmark / comparison - wont be honing those in a hurry, but will try the escher or coticule if I end up getting one, to refine the edge in 6-12 months when they need it.

I see you're in Brisbane, IIRC Oz (onimaru55) is also in that neck of the woods. If you could get together with another member who is proficient in honing it would be very helpful. Watching in person gives a more accurate view of pressure and what not than tutorials or even videos.

Edit; I'm mistaken, he is in Sydney and Jimbo is in Manley .......... oh well ....... maybe there is someone else around you that could show you first hand how they do it ?

Have a local meetup at the end of the month which should be great. I've seen honing in person at the last meetup but didn't know the right questions to ask or what I should be looking for. Will be better equipped this time.

Hi Andrew. Have you watched Gssixguns videos on YouTube. He uses a mix of straight down the hone and x strokes. He also explains very well what he is doing and why. Personally I tend to use a bit of all the strokes just to make sure that I get everything. Works for me. Good luck and maybe give one of the local boys a holla and I'm sure you can arrange for someone to show you the ropes.

I agree with the other gents about watching the honing vids on YT, they're really helpful!

Something I tend to do when honing is make the stroke with the heel leading, so the razor is actually on the stone at around a 40 degree angle with the heel in front. I find that helps me get a really consistent bevel the entire way along the edge. Its also really useful sitting down with someone who knows what they're doing if you can, and as Jimmy says, Oz is based out your neck of the woods so it might be worth dropping him a PM.

Honing is like a lot of other things - Keep practicing and eventually you'll get there! :)

Good luck and keep us posted!

There are several good examples on You Tube. Do a search on Keith Johnson or Doc226. Both are great teachers. And of course, Lynn Abrams' extensive library is a must watch as well.

Frank

Andrew, You do have to pay attention to the different areas of the edge and compensate for irregularities.
When honing a new razor, or one with very little wear, the bevel is quite narrow and the edge is very straight unless it has a smile. This situation will cause very little difference in wear irregularity at the heel when using an X stroke.
If the slight eneven wear bothers you, you can easily use a few strokes at 90 degrees to the length of the stone with slightly greater pressure on the heel to correct this.
Older razors that frequently have a lot of wear often have heels that are not worn nearly as much as the toe.
Often the toe is rounded from excessive wear to the point where it presents a problem when shaving that requires a change in technique.
When you get started honing you will soon find out that many tiny little changes in pressure are required to get the entire edge honed to your satisfaction.
I think of the process to be like driving a car down a long perfectly straight highway. No matter how hard you try, or how much driving experience you have, you will periodically have to make tiny corrections to keep the car going straight.
With considerable driving experience you don't have to think about these tiny corrections and when you have gained considerable experience on the hones you won't have to think much about what corrections of pressure or number of strokes that are needed to get the job done to your satisfaction.
Good luck with your future honing and I am sure that with practice you will be able to stay between the lines of your honing highway.

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Originally Posted by Stubear

I agree with the other gents about watching the honing vids on YT, they're really helpful!

Something I tend to do when honing is make the stroke with the heel leading, so the razor is actually on the stone at around a 40 degree angle with the heel in front. I find that helps me get a really consistent bevel the entire way along the edge. Its also really useful sitting down with someone who knows what they're doing if you can, and as Jimmy says, Oz is based out your neck of the woods so it might be worth dropping him a PM.

Honing is like a lot of other things - Keep practicing and eventually you'll get there! :)

Good luck and keep us posted!

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I also lead the heel 45 degrees on many razors to get the heel on the stone and go straight up and down, stopping to check where I am lacking along the edge and then I do X-strokes to even it all up. I sometimes also use the edge of my hone to get certain parts. There are many techniques but I think you are right to want a sharp edge the full length.

Thanks for bringing up this question Andrew. I've been watching the various videos and wondering the same thing, but hadn't asked yet. JimmyHAD's references have helped me a lot, as have the videos, but I think it comes down to finding a technique that makes sense to you and works with your style of motion. The circle technique from one of Gssixgun's video's really appeals to my sense of 'balanced' strokes.

I wonder about that too, but like jimmyhad said; the toe seems to need the extra attention for me. I've been doing pretty well with my straight blades, but struggle with the smiling blades. I have a nice Wosty that I am afraid to hone. I think it will be visiting with Lynn or gssixgun soon as I really want to shave with it. I don't think I can wait for my technique to catch up. Lol.

I'm hearing you Ted, I'm be able to get most blades right now with out to much trouble as I usually use the circles method followed by X strokes & Glens pigtailed x stroke for most straight blades
but the smiling blades still take me a lot longer working out the rolling X stroke to get them right

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Originally Posted by AndrewJM

Have a local meetup at the end of the month which should be great. I've seen honing in person at the last meetup but didn't know the right questions to ask or what I should be looking for. Will be better equipped this time.

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Andrew, Its hard to say how good an idea this is. You have some wonderful guys there & Onimaru55 may be one of the more skilled guys you ever meet - good in restoration, and called the 'best with the stones' by one of the larger Jnat vendors. Start writing down questions now. If its a large group, see where Oz it heading to sit - sit nearby so you can hear the questions & his answers and have a good visual when he demonstrates honing. (I'm rather mercenary about learning) You'll thank yourself for many yrs to come.

Your hand is holding the shank, and a common grip is thumb toward the top. So that heel part of the razor is getting some pressure. On a wider stone you can always do as others have said - angle the heel forward at say 45 degrees and simply move the razor in that position up and down the stone.

On a narrower hone the contact width might be a few cm in which case all the bits of the edge get roughly equal time.

Alternatively you can do a something like an "L" stroke: go 1/3 of the way down the hone with the heel part on, then X it off to get the rest of the edge.

The point though is that you have to assess and adjust and adapt so that you get the edge how you want it, and there's no one stroke guaranteed to do the job in all cases. So if you find when you do the X stroke the heel is not getting honed you need to adjust your stroke so it does.

Magic marker is your friend when learning to hone, particularly with setting bevels and with non-standard grinds like you get on older blades etc.

James.